archibald

And it says her fans call her that......what then, I ask, do her enemies call her?

I don't know why right wing nuts would ever alter a Wikki seeing as how they don't like book learnin' and all...and BTW don't you know it's "Moran," not "Moron?" Just ask this brilliant Bush-supporting counter-protester.

Eddie you never responded to PM when our mods asked you to. You igonored them for several hours while continuting to post so they banned you.

Then you send emails threatening to report us to the gen watch companies. Cmon man, that will get you no where acting like that.

Your here, behave and Im sure that youll have a nice long stay at RWG.

Oh yea, that is still not the latest version Aquatimer.

Not to interrupt this intersting and wonderfully odd RepGeek policy symposium, but does the world need another IWC rep? If they insist on doing yet another black-dial/black-bezel-insert/steel bracelet dive watch, I'd rather have a super-rep of a twice-as-expensive (read twice the rep/gen cost ratio) watch representing a brand that's way under-repped IMO: The gorgeous, retro-looking, ultra-reppable Blancpain 2007 Fifty-Fathoms.

Eddie, stop being coy--it makes you look like a d***k. Everyone who's been around here for more than a week can spot a sales post faster than Jetmid can sus out a fake 5036, whether you use the words "for" and "sale" or not. If you actually want to sell anything around here, just do it the way the Admins/Mods want it to be done and I'd bet an AR Aquatimer they'll give you a fair shake.

My gut tells me that this is a recently made, gen ETA manufactured in a non-swiss plant.

I'm actually kind of disappointed this movement isn't an Asian copy. In fact, I don't know what's more disappointing -- finding out this movement doesn't represent the end of ETA-drying-up problem with only a minor tradeoff in workmanship, or that even Swiss watchmakers will happily accept the dmishished QC standards that outsourcing requires.

I guess living in the middle of the Pacific has some advantages... I recieve mine in 4 day's unless the delivery day falls on a Saturday.. then give it until Monday.... if it comes from LAX it's really fast.. if SFO... then another day or two... I guess the farther East you go ie. Midwest or East coast.. seems like for each region a day or more is added... Postal services never makes sense .. your paying for express ... 4 day's .. and getting lesser than 1st class (7 day's) air mail..

I'm on the east coast of the USA and EMS has never taken longer than 5 days, regular never longer than 10. As far as tracking numbers go, I stopped tracking all of my shipments from China since the first three didn't show up on the USPS website until after my watches arrived...just caused undue stress on the ticker.

I would definitely go for the PAM rep. There are two questions you need to ask yourself:

1) Do I want to get noticed for wearing an expensive, fashionable swiss timepiece?

2) Do I want to get noticed because everyone is staring at the hideous monstrosity on my wrist?

If you answer yes to #1, buy a gen Rolex Daytona

If you asnwer yes to #2, buy the Welder.

If you answer yes to both....buy a Panerai!!

I think this is a rumour like so many others in the past. Probably started by a member and others jump on the band wagon!!TimeShare

I wouldn't be surprised if they're working on an 8 day movement, if only to keep copying the in-house PAMs and/or becuase they would like an 8-day movement for Chinese gens. If they ever succeed, a Big Pilot would be a logical rep to make--popular, solid back, simple functions, design, and dial. None of the factories want this at the moment because they're too busy making money on the reps they're currently producing with cheaper parts. I doubt any rep "company" has huge R&D departments...but believe me: if and when they get the movement done the dealers will make sure it'll be hyped to high heaven on the boards.

V brings up a good point. "Outing" him only makes sense if someone is a credible long time risti and really wants to pursue this quietly. I always wondered if those folks who are members of both RWG and risti ever fess up that they buy reps as well. I do own reps and gens but concluded that I prefer to quietly read what is on risti rather than get into the whole rep versus gen thing with a bunch of purists. And yes I find the general horological content is far higher here.

Nah, all it would take would be a few choice sentences from any any of us, introduced anonymously as one of us--Mark dopily opened the door to that, not only by his backhanded defense of our ethics, but by leading the risti to believe that he was just a garden variety, principled rep collector, which is far cry from someone who delved into the actual manufacture of rep parts, modding reps, perhaps selling reps as gens, and stealing money. IMO,once the Paneristi become aware of Mark's actual involvement in the rep biz, he's toast.

BTW, Modding reps to pay for gens is hilariously smarmy--"I'm happy to ruin the fake watches of the unwashed, but only gens are good enough for me!"

mine too

If ound it amazing that people were buying these like hotcakes for automatics when OEM crowns were available for less money (yeah, I know about the CG "hole" thing, but the palps are still way too thick)

But, this does explain the crown tilt problem on a watch I recieved in trade. OEM's going in that piece, but I was hoping to use the palp in another--The Zigmeister, can these be retapped/and or threaded? I guess you'd have to try tapping a .9 for a 1.2 if it's even possible at all

Couldn't've said it better myself

People, let's not forget, that at the end of the day, a rep is a rep, and will never be gen (unless every single component was swapped, and then it would be a different watch...

Also, the genuine Omega is not, never has, and never will, be/been called a UPO. It is the Planet Ocean Big Size. 2900.50.91

That is what you want to ask for parts for. Ask for parts for a "You Pee Oh" at an AD, and they're either going to give some strange looks, laugh, or, as Doc said with Ofrei, probably get you yelled at It's like not so long ago a collector got rather annoyed by someone calling their watch a "Noobmariner", as the watch was just an entry level Rolex, and the Noobmariner is only sold by this one dealer, and their comments could have given a negative impression of their product, which was not the actual subject of the person's topic anyway... This is the same with the UPO. It is just a term attached to a specific factory release by certain collectors. In terms of asking for the 'real thing' (or parts for it) Planet Ocean Big Size. 2900.50.91 is what you want to be asking for

So you're saying we should call the UPO the NoobPlanet?

BTW, has anyone measured the hole that the UPO's or rep 42mm (or rather, Planet Ocean 2900.51.82) He valve sticks into? Looking at the pics of a gen He valve assembly it looks as though you might be able to raise the He valve to the correct position if the rep's hole is very small.

"Almost" is the key word hehehe!

Looks great!

I've considered this mod many times over the last year on a 42mm version, but the He valve position has been the sticking point. Is the He valve really in the exact position on the 45mm rep?

These pics is the response to all the members that gave all the negative input for this watch...and will folow a lot more pics.

Looking forward to pics that clearly show the rehaut, crown, potition, and dial print.

PureTime Watches International

... as I know if the case is for the original Rolex movement, it will not be able to install ETA movements (but I dont know if the case is modded).

Translation: To Angus's knowledge there's not going to be an ETA (2892) version of the good-case version, which I bet as by-tor said was an OEM case. I think watcher is going to verify (as the King and RepGeek pics seem to show) that the 2836 requires permanent flaws. I used to think along the same lines as Puwash's theory, but since Angus has gone on record saying this is the only version in the works from the factories most likely to make a super rep version (which would necessitate, of course, a 2892) our hopes seem to be dashed. But I'll still set a few hundred bucks aside in case that version ever shows up, rather than buy this version...

I bet lots of people would like a ceramic bezel as long as the finished modded watch still represents a huge savings over the "regular" HBB rep price. But....whoever does this is is going to have to shell out for a ceramic bezel HBB. Chances are that whatever ceramic shop one of us finds will never have made a watch part, and will have no concept of the tolerances and attention to aesthetics needed to make an exact copy. I can tell you from experience that the only chance in hell to get it done right would be to give them the exact part youy want copied and tell them to copy it exactly. Askingthem to copy a PVD bezel "except it ceramic" is kind of a dopey idea--buy a ceramic HBB and sell it when the project is over.

The most amazing thing is the #5 in The Zigmeister's pic, not only the crispness of the #, but the fact that he has corrected its position relative to the dots. I assume the 10 and 15 were also done, which removes the only flaw on the CD dial.

I also like the idea of using the cheap [censored] to practice the switching to tritec when you get the hang of it...unless the N-lume has different application performance than superlume. No point in learning how to use something that you'll never apply on a watch you care about.

Anyone know how a gen's lume is applied? By hand w/ specialized stencils? By computer controlled machine? Screen/Pad printed?

Awesome watch, but asking a repmaker to copy it can only end in weeping.

Actually black markets are the ultimate free markets - free from government intervention. As long as you don't call getting arrested government intervention.

except the rep market is more than a black market--it's sort of like a combination of the smack market and the vintage lunchbox market. Junkies and collectors are equal victims of the same f'd up psychosis. Which is of course why the idea of a boycott is funny, like saying "the price of crack is up 26%! That's it...It's Red Bull for me from now on!"

But maybe we should try to be more sensible, though. A few pages back TTK was poking fun at one of his non-forum initiated customers who's happy to pay a flat rate of 15% of gen, no matter the attributes of the rep. But check out the breitling area, for example: more than a few guys who know their way around the rep market are shelling out 50% of the price of a gen to mod their SFSO's to 99% and I've gone to 40% of a used PAM just cause I scored a gen dial. Makes those $800 Mellow Yellows seem almost undervalued.

Jon Stewart's name is "Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz". don't think anyone would watch "The Daily Show with Jon Leibowitz," huh?

and what's the deal with French Stewart? didn't anyone tell him that he'll go blind if he constantly squints like that?

I don't think you need a new watch. I would certainly have the bezel professionally rebrushed and then polish the markers as smooth as possible and have them replated in rhodium to match the OEM's white gold. The plating can probably be done for $20. I don't know what a professional rebrush would cost, but to be completely honest, I wouldn't wear the watch as is so I guess I'd consider $100 for a rebrush a savings over buying a new watch.

I think I see a production number, but it's very hard to find because of the angle of the picture. Let's see if this helps:

If that's a rep, the Chinese have taken CNC engraving to a new level. Sadly, IMO that's a gen.

Forget it! A gen bezel won't fit as the bezel assembly is entirely different from the rep's. The rep has a click-on bezel (the screws are just for looks), the gen is screwed into place.

I believe OEM bezels can be made to fit. The problem is finding one. Anyone know an ebay seller to contact?

This thread should be required reading for all new members. I don't think I've ever been as [censored] off with this hobby as I was a couple years ago when I sent 2 watches to be modded and the day they both returned, ruined, the "modder" posted pics of his new gen. 200 bucks for a lume? Thank God that guy's gone, but the question I would think we should ask ourselves is, "Do I really want to sacrifice my rep for someone else's gen?" No mas.

This is not to say that I wouldn't heartily welcome a couple legitimately talented and honest modders to our community, and I know The Zigmeister feels the same way. Until that happens we all need to do our DD.

Great review, Watcher, and thanks for taking one for the team. I just don't think there's a way to make the sub/SD we all dream about w/ a 2836.

I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling that they''re going to make a good 2892 sub pretty soon. Maybe what's holding them back is the availability of the movements, but I bet most of us would be perfectly happy w/ the decent asian "2892" though.

You need to do alot of modding - but you can correct nearly every flaw.

1665 fan, for your FYI the standard mod package would be CG's milled, dial and hands aged, OEM crown/tube, and better insert/pearl. Do those mods and only the biggest vintage rolex WIS on the planet will call you out. Many "loaded" models sport OEM crystals. deepened caseback engravings, a new date overlays and even OEM dials and inserts, but in my view change the watch from rep to franken.

I can't believe all this negotiation just to have a URL...this is ridiculous. :bangin:I can't believe all this negotiation just to have a URL...this is ridiculous.

Otherwise we'd buy up all those $800 HBB's right from under him. Sometimes this hobby makes folks a little goofy...

A friend who used to manage an AD told me once that he had heard through the Audemars grapevine that a number of luxury watch brands met secretly with a major Chinese rep factory and told them that they, the watch brands, would not go after them 'in any serious way' (that was the exact phrase he used) as long as the factory agreed never to produce an exact copy of any of their watches.

Initially, I thought this was preposterous or one of those urban retail myths. But after thinking about it for awhile, it sort of began to make sense. Look, for instance, at my 116509 Daytona. They got all of the complicated little details on the dial right, but then they throw on these bogus 3/6/9 index markers that mark the watch as an obvious rep (at least until I can figure out a good way to fix them).

It is these kinds of 'mistakes' that make me wonder, because I find it very hard to believe that anyone could spend so much time researching to get so many tiny details right & then make such an obvious mistake that undoes all of that hard work. It just strains believability.

God only knows if a secret meeting ever took place, but I don't think there can be any debate that Rep factories intentionally leave a flaw or two designed to make a rep instantly discernable to a collector yet still fool the general population. The proof for me is that some flaws transcend geration, model, etc. yet will always remain. It makes sense really: I don't think repmakers are interested in profiting from the tiny number of people who sell reps as gens--they're interested in making money by giving a substantially larger number of people the chance to wear a "high end" watch w/o shelling out thousands of bucks. Whether this practice is to give the chinese government plausible deniability, to keep the Swiss heat off, or just tbusiness, who knows? All wee need to know is that if we're going to be as anal as we are we're always going to have to mod.

I like the HBB, but after buying one for a colleague (and of course wearing it for a day!) I decided not to buy one for myself. I was pretty underwhelmed both by the fit and finish on the dial, screws (if you're going to rep a watch w/ that many visible screws you ought to do them well a la the ROO), and movement. I've never seen a gen, so maybe biver's watch is rough too, but I doubt it. The HBB is a great rep, but nowhere near the best. I'd put it into the category of the majority of good reps--it would fool 99% of the people, but hold up for about a second around anyone w/ decent knowledge of watches. A truly great rep, IMO,(the Muller COnquistador, a modded PAM 063 or 29, etc) a collector would at least have to stare at for a little while to discern its repness.