archibald

Too late to get the FM Conquistador ETA2892....so thinking of getting the FM Casablanca ETA2892 from Andrew at over $300. Got a few questions which I hope you guys could help me with.....there aren't much info on the casablancas (non 18K solid gold version)

1. Is the casablanca as good a replica as the conquistador?

2. Is the quality of the different casablanca reps the same, movement aside?

3. Better in Leather or SS?

Would appreciate some input. Cheers

The best casablanca reps (the steel version of the 18k version) are arguably better reps than the conquistador since the hands are a slightly more accurate blue and the crown is closer to gen.

I don't really see the point in paying for a decorated 2892 on a solid back watch so get the 2824 powered steel version...but check gen pictures to make sure you buy the version w/ the correct hands (there is a version w/ incorrect hands sold as well). Rep FM bracelets are horrible, so definitely buy the strap version. If you pick up a nice strap, have the hands relumed and install an OEM dial, you will never, ever be called out unless someone has the rep serial # memorized or opens the case.

Do keep in mind this is a small watch, though...~39.5 X 33mm

Thanks for the detailed response. At $280, I'll have to pass. One might be getting good quality gold plating but all the errors just aren't justifying that price. Gold plating only uses a few cents worth of gold and a bit of time so, overall, this watch should be in the $135 - $150 range in my opinion.

But regardless, I still like it. Enjoy it and wear it in good health!

There's no gold it that watch's "plating" because it's not plated....it's the PVD rose gold process they've started using on "Rose Gold" reps," which explains the hardness of the finish. 280 seems OK to me--if someone posted that they could accurately PVD a PAM for $100 folks would be all over it.

It's good to see they finally put out a rose gold TOG, which is the correct color of gold for the white and black dials, and if it's being sold at the markets I bet the china based dealers can get it. I have a TOG w/ a decent rehaut but non-rotating bezel...wonder if the bezel will fit on it. Does the bezel on the RG version rotate?

Unless somone has the thickness of gen Daytonas memorized, you're good to go! Beautiful piece!

BTW, has anyone managed to cut the feet off of a gen dial and throw it on a sec's @ 6 rep?

Have you asked him if it's OK to post his info on the forum? I know my watchsmith would absolutely sh** a brick if he started getting calls from people saying "I read on the Internet that you'll fix fake watches..."

I hate to rain on our parade even though I'd love to own reps of almost every single one of the watches posted so far. Trouble is 90% of them can't and won't ever be repped. El primeros? Patek's annual calandar movement? JLC's Dual timezone movement? 2894's? Dubuis manufacture chrono movements? Sorry, I'll own a gen sky moon tourbillon before copies of those movements are ever touched by human hands. I hear they're working on a big pilot movement, but I'll believe that when it arrives by EMS.

The good news is that there are plenty of sweet, high end watches that can be made with existing rep movements and sold at under 10% of gen prices--after modding. I submit the 11 grand Blancpain 50 fathoms and the 10kMuller Casablanca Chrono:

ON EDIT: It will be happy New year indeed, though, if they would just fix the A's on all exisiting PAM rep dials!!

Hey babola..

I need to get myself a christmas present... this looks pretty good... just need to make sure that it has the 2893 power reserve mvt...

You got a pretty good PAM collection too....

K

I dan near pulled the trigger on this, but would have wanted to install an OEM PVD crown and keep the jimmy CG but, alas, no can do because of the lever shaving done to make it work w/ the palp...but if you like the fat crown I can tell you from just having a finepics PVD's watch in my hand that the PVD is very nice. For now, my SS 28 will remain in watchbox prison until I can find a decent PVD shop to set it fee...

I did the side by side on the dial that kruzer is talking about and there is clearly a difference in the original "honpo" version dial (kruzer's) and the later version (mine). I'm convinced that Honpo sought out the Chinese factories that produce parts for Swiss companies, or at least factories that are head and shoulders above the "typical"rep factories.

Thanks for the kind words. The PVD was certainly the best when it was done more than a year ago. I had forgotten Finepics had the parts. It was a very pleasant surprise when I found out I had enclosed the Jimmy and the Palp crown when I sent it to him. In truth I think Rolli's person has improved on the PVD. I have actually had three different folks contact me about interest in selling it. Thanks for the interest but I am going to keep it for a while.

w/ that caseback it looks like it would be a perfect candidate for Davidsen's pre-A dials if they ever appear. Sure it wouldn't be exact, but who has all the case/CG variations memorized?

Great tips.

I'd modify to the crystal tips to say that glueing and sealing crystals is advisable for any rep that you don't intend to remove the crystal from, whether or not you plan on getting it wet. My asssumption is that there's no way the cases and crystals are made to tight enough specs to assume any water resistance at all, let alone when swapping a crystal from one model of rep to another. Maybe that's overkill, but I've had a couple of gasket-only crystals leak and and no glued and sealed crystals leak w/ the same wearing habits.

Other than the "biggie" mods people do anyway, I think the most important (or even equally important in some cases) are mods that improve fit and finish since that's the most visible difference between rep and gens these days--rebrushing, improving the CG pin finish, and ensuring the lower lip of the crown is flush w/ the case when the lever closed are my top 3 pam mods aside from straps and lume jobs.

I'm not sure you're thinking about this is a way that's going to get you where you want to be. Here are some unasailble facts about rep collecting, especially PAM rep collecting:

1)There exists no out-of-the-box reps and precious few unmodded reps (and no TWP's modded 111's are not among them) that would not fool 99.9% of the population and would ever fool the .01% of the world that knows what a gen Panerai looks like.

2)The people that don't know about PAMs are going to wonder why you'd ever wear such an ugly watch, and the people that do know about PAM's are either going to assume yours is real if you can plausibly be a gen wearer or surmise yours is a rep if you can't plausibly a gen wearer.

So what should you do? First, do the bare minimum of research needed to intelligently buy a rep, which is to say look at the reviews people have posted and make a short list of pams that people think are accurate and that you like the looks of. The 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th most accurate PAMS will fool exactly the same # of people.

Then you should choose a dealer based on dealer reviews.

Then buy a nice accurate PAM you like and enjoy, keeping in mind that your bearing and appearance is at least as important as the accuracy of the watch.

A local AD owner told me an interesting factoid about how Patek sells their ultra high-end pieces. They'll happily take an order for a super expensive watch from an AD (who has already agreed to order well over a million bucks worth of watches to sell on spec over 3 years, just to sell and keep selling Pateks) but the AD can make a maximum of $35,000 or 15% whichever is less. That either tells you Patek's margin is pretty low for those watches or that they see no use for AD's or both.

Thanks Corgi, very nice review!!! I send a email to Narikaa...Do you know of there are swiss tourbillons (payable ones..)

and does the one I want to buy the same movement as yours?

I don't know what the cheapest Swiss Tourbillon is, but I bet it's more than 15K USD.

These tourbillon's are really nice watches, but I'd almost rather have a non-repped brand or no brand at all since a tourby is a very visible complication and the only repped brand that actually uses a carriage or carousel tourbillon or whatever that one is called is Blancpain, and theirs is at 12:00, not 6:00. I really thought we'd already be seeing reps using the center tourbillons that started popping up on ebay late last year. That would be great since like 99.9% of gen tourbillons are center tourbillons and a decent rep (Muller Long Island Tourbillon for me) would be impossible to resist.

A great collection. Who said the 70's were the Dark Ages of design? Whoever it was they were wrong, at least when it comes to watches.

BTW, has anyone ever run accross a list of high end watches Genta designed? Wonder if he ever did anything for Cartier, JLC, etc...

You can't beat a nice gen PAM GMT... I got the gen PAM89 and it is awesome.... I have been eyeing the 161 too... go for it... I think it is nicer than the 88..

Another vote for the 89--limited, unreppable (as the rep demonstrates), and unbelievably gorgeous. I would up practically stealing an 86 ($4100 w/ about $400 worth of straps) but I'd sell it in a heartbeat if a good deal on an 89 popped up.

Simply beautiful, Kruzer. Congratulations!

Sweet! Now I'm 2nd in line...can't wait!! Hurry up and finish D's, Zig!!

Unfortunately, I was down in Lynchburg--otherwise I'd have made the trip to MD.Looking forward to next time!

Did Mont Blanc make the rose gold/black combo in porevious years--maybe those dials say "Automaitic" and MB moved to "chronometer" this year?

Also--except for a very very few exceptions you can ALWAYS assume you're going to get the SS markings when you buy a gold rep unless the rep was only produced in gold. Sucks, but that's just how it's always been.

Organized crime, probably (they are into just about everything). But terrorists? All I can say is that if the government has convinced you that Marijuana is physically addictive, there were WMDs in Iraq in 2003 & God made little green apples, then you can help save the free world from terrorism by not buying reps.

But keep filling up those SUV's folks!!

A Corgi: Ever had a mechanic form a major dealership f up a repair? Ever had an awful meal cooked by a well respected chef? Ever bought a gen luxury item that was seriously flawed? Me too. If high end reps are in fact built by professionals, I bet their error rate is definitely higher because of the differences in training, conditions, etc. But we pay $400 for their work, not $8000. I bet the major difference is in final QC and not the skill of the workmanship. My prediction is that the swiss reject several times more pieces at every stage of the process than the Chinese do, but that all of the things you mentioned, even the pubic hair, have been discovered by Swiss QC insopectors at every swiss factory ever built.

maybe

Maybe, some of the time...

I might hang back on this one though, to see if they fix the dial and hands which they do on 2nd versions....some of the time. What they will not fix on this one is the terrible CNC work on the side of the case. I've had $60 day date chronos w/ better cases than this one.

Gen ETA cannon pinion and hour wheel installed.

The swiss movement reps come w/ gen ETA cannon pins and hour wheels, and they're too short. Which length are you ordering? I believe the cannon pin you want is 134014H3 and 134017H3 unless those are just the stock numbers of my supplier and not ETA part #'s.

I believe that unless you get reallly lucky, the only way to guarantee true 1:1 water resistance that the gen has is to make a tube (my smith uses a lathe but I see no reason why the right size of surgical tubing, a set of files and a steady hand can't produce the same result). There are three considerations:

1)the interior dameter should be the same size as the gaskets on the neck of the crown ( about 2.35mm).

2)The part that protrudes from the case should be a fraction of a mm smaller than diameter of the recess in the underside of the crown. (4.75mm..I THINK.)

3)the tube should stick out of the case just far enough for the spring action to press the gasket on the underside of the crown firmly against the lip of the tube, but not so much that there is any tube at all showing when the lever is engaged. I understand that this is the hardest part of the process because it requires very precise adjustment of the stem. The distance the tube sticks out from the case is of course determined by the sice of the crown's recess, but the force with which the gasket is compressed is dertimed by the lenth of the stem.

Of course the diameter of the part of the tube that sticks into the case is determined by the size of the hole drilled in the case. I know that it is 3.25 for Jimmyfzu cases, but smaller for standard rep cases if there is such a thing. Of course making the OEM crown work on a handwind movement requires either shaving off the threads from the stem and glueing it as some have done w/ zero problems or by removing the threads w/ a lathe and the rethreading the stem to .9mm as my smith does.

Well I purchased one of these crowns from this seller, I was convinced by the pics in his earlier adds and his 100% positive feedback that his crowns where gen. His pics in his latest adds make me doubt the authenticity, look too skinny to me. I shall post some pics once I received the crown...

No way that's a gen 44mm crown. 40mm maybe...but the finish looks too rough compared to the OEM crown I'm looking at right now.

I'll supply you with a drum roll, if you want, but these kind of posts IMO are purely selfish. Couldn't you threaten TWP w/ a bad review privately? Keeping members in the dark so they can get ripped off while you try to leverage the threat of a bad review is one thing, but what makes you think I'm willing to volunteer the time it took to read your completely useless post ("I got a bad watch, and if he sends my money back I'll never tell who sent it") so you can get a refund? I know a public threat from a two-poster (and slai) is has a huge dramatic impact, but all you're doing is wasting our time.

Look at your collection. Ask yourself: Do I need another steel watch w/ a black dial? Answer own question. Buy blue dial Nautilus.Look at your collection. Ask yourself: Do I need another steel watch w/ a black dial? Answer own question. Buy blue dial Nautilus.

I was also thinking of going for the IWC 3717. I just don't fully buy into the asian 7750 as of yet. The Breguet would be a bit more appropriate for my everyday wear (I currently wear a vintage gen omega and gen breit and rolex).

Maybe there's no GP version of the Brequet--gold reps seem to becoming rarer and rarer except for the newer PVD rose gold models, probably because of durability complaints. Keep in mind that the version of the A7750 that earned all the infamy was the older model, especially the versions that had been modified to 3/6/9. The newer model in standard 7750 format on the 3717 ought to be fine, and the IWC is a great rep. IMO the new white dial version would make a nice dress watch. Other dress watches w/ class and cahet equal to the Brequet, not to mention better accuracy to specific gens would be the Cartier Santos Dumont on the low end (very accurate models can be had for around a hundred bucks w/ asian movements) up to the amazingly accurate decorated 2892 FM Casablancas. MBK nautilus, and VC overseas (the gen versions of all 3 come in steel) or if you like IWC's, the decorated 6497 special edition comes in gold and steel. BEfore you buy the breguet (particularly your're a hedge fund manager and/or don't care about plausibility) take a look at the VC chrono, a decent rep of a 40k gen, that uses the same movement as the brequet w/o the moon phase module.

I was also thinking of going for the IWC 3717. I just don't fully buy into the asian 7750 as of yet. The Breguet would be a bit more appropriate for my everyday wear (I currently wear a vintage gen omega and gen breit and rolex).

Maybe there's no GP version of the Brequet--gold reps seem to becoming rarer and rarer except for the newer PVD rose gold models, probably because of durability complaints. Keep in mind that the version of the A7750 that earned all the infamy was the older model, especially the versions that had been modified to 3/6/9. The newer model in standard 7750 format on the 3717 ought to be fine, and the IWC is a great rep. IMO the new white dial version would make a nice dress watch. Other dress watches w/ class and cahet equal to the Brequet, not to mention better accuracy to specific gens would be the Cartier Santos Dumont on the low end (very accurate models can be had for around a hundred bucks w/ asian movements) up to the amazingly accurate decorated 2892 FM Casablancas. MBK nautilus, and VC overseas (the gen versions of all 3 come in steel) or if you like IWC's, the decorated 6497 special edition comes in gold and steel. BEfore you buy the breguet (particularly your're a hedge fund manager and/or don't care about plausibility) take a look at the VC chrono, a decent rep of a 40k gen, that uses the same movement as the brequet w/o the moon phase module.

Could you swap the bridge plates and/or swan neck from the Asian movement onto the ETA movement for the ultimate Fiddy? By the way are the bridges finished much closer to gen? What is interesting is that there is a whole misnomer about a lack of Swiss ETA movements. They are readily available in bulk but just not to China and not at discounted enough prices to allow rep manufacturers the same profit margins. At least one major supplier (I don't remember who) is offering virtually every ETA movement including 7750, 1,3's, and 2892,3,4's in quantities from 1 to up to 100 at a time. ETA is finally getting smart.

You copy the soup...no soup for you!! kruzer'squestion about the finish is key: Unless the plates and especially the winding gears are significantly better than the old version, I think an "ultimate" version would be a waste of money--the old ones would fool every single person who doesn't know what a panerai movement looks like and nobody who does know. Unless the "ultimate" is damn near gen, the result would be exactly the same. BTW, I guess the ultimate ultimate movement would be to combine Swiss and asian to get the smooth winding of the swiss w/ the high beat & shock protection of the asian...if that's even possible.