Jimmythree

If someone wanted to make a batch of good quality 19800 or 21600 bph movements with the same hand sizes, date position, and dial foot location as a 15xx rlx (with quick set) it would probably sell. It would not have to look like a rlx, just act like one. Also make it quick set without a 'click' in the date setting position, just find the date set position by feel and make it hack or not hack by removing the hack lever like an ETA. Make a GMT too! I can't remember having an ETA 2620, I'll hunt one up. 17jewels.info: ETA 2620R

"No, tell us. We want to know the story!" Let's just say "I'll take all you can get" may have bounced from my bird brain to my alligator mouth at some point during a conversation. No disrespect to alligators. J3/amc Crocodile image by Hopsy.

Ubi said: "Quality over Quantity" and I agree. But today I say: "Quantity over Quality." Wristie: Watch on the left is a lower $$ '21J' model with the M hand/H hand and center hand frozen. The seconds hand at 6 runs all the time. The watch on the right is part of a family. Pam-dam! Too many dependents in this family: A few more... Group shot... There is a story behind this family but I'll not bore anyone with it. J3/amc

"Where they sold as full presidential watches in fake 18k gold cases or sold as original day date movements coming from presidential watches?" Afaik they were sold as complete watches. The two my friend had were hard to tell from genuine except for the aftmkt diamond dials. They also had diamond bezels, very well made with genuine diamonds. Looking back, I think one was 3035 base and the other 3135, can't be 100% sure. I had an 18K replica 'zenith' Daytona on an oyster bracelet in August 1998 with an ETA 7753 and it was also very good. It had two flaws...too thick and the black dial was not as good as the case and bracelet. I soon traded it away but it would be worth a lot today just for the gold. There were a lot of replica solid gold watches floating around back then and a trading site about 100 miles away had two or three traders always selling gold replicas so no one kept one for long. They also had tutone models with 14K or 18K fluted bezels and tutone jubilees with 14K or 18K center links. They went for about $650 for SS/14K and $750 for SS/$18K, all with new ETA 2836 with (used) genuine crowns. Last one I had was probably 12 or 15 years ago. Gold went way up and the 18K watches went away, scrapped probably. Gold was about $285 per Troy oz back then (August 1998) and $1820 today. Price of 18K gold per gram then vs now = $6.87 vs $43.90 so if an 18K case and oyster bracelet weighed 100 grams back then, it was about $690 then vs $4400 today. Still have one of the 18K cases and it weighs 29 or 30 grams (with bezel, no crystal or crown)...29g = $1273 today.

Dow Mk is nothing out of the ordinary as far as modern lubricants go and Lithium grease has been around for many years. Always wondered how it ended up in watches. Anyway...if someone is worried about it contaminating cleaning/rinsing solutions, maybe clean/rinse the parts with Mk in separate, smaller batches of cleaner/rinse. I use Moebius 9415 on pallet jewels and it seems to work Ok. " I was talking to a watchmaker some months ago and mentioned to me that he used two Seiko oils in All of his work and was able to give a longer warranty to his customers because of what he used!" This was the rule before the internet made everyone crazy when it comes to watch oil and grease types. Two different grades of oil (fine and thick) plus mainspring grease and setting parts grease...that used to be all there was. Two of the best oils back in the 1940s/1950s were used by Elgin and Hamilton watch companies. Hamilton made their oil on site in what was then the smallest oil refinery in the world and Elgin may have made theirs too, don't know. Many purist types still use the old Elgin oil and it still works fine after many years. Here is an empty Elgin bottle, instructions, and box set on eBay... Vintage ca.1950's Elgin Watch Oil Bottle, Original Box, Enclosed Paperwork. | eBay It sometimes came in a fancy bottle... Vintage ELGIN WATCH OIL BOTTLE | eBay Here is a Hamilton PML 79 oil set... Hamilton PML 79 Oil With Oiler-With Box-"Made Especially for Men's Watches" | eBay Imho there is a LOT of BS about watch oil. Over 20 years ago just for grins, I c/o an old rolex with a 1570 and used Mobil 1 on the train wheel pivots/escapement, a/w pivots etc, Gal-Gard Engine Gard (molybdenum disulfide oil additive) on the MS and barrel wall, red Kawasaki Jet Ski grease on the setting parts, and K-44 silicone lube on the gaskets. It ran just fine for years and showed no signs of wear anywhere. We used the Kal-Guard additive in the oil on 1980s hot rod 4 valve Suzuki GS 1100 motorcycles to keep the camshafts from galling. It made the oil black as tar but it worked. Kal-Gard DuPont Molykote DX Part number 404532050 About this item: For long-term lubrication of metal parts and for assemblies. For precision mechanical systems. For watch movements and other chronograph/horology systems. Resistance to water wash-out. Good corrosion protection. Prevents stick-slip and seizure. Excellent protection against galling. MOLYKOTE DX- Greasy paste normally used for setting systems and other high friction areas. Lots of brands for a LONG period of time have used Molykote for their setting systems because of reliability. Molykote wasn't even originally designed for watchmaking use! Brands such as Breitling and Rolex have since rejected and discontinued using Molykote. As of the late, the reasoning is because it contaminates the cleaning solutions. Molykote DX paste is a mineral / lithium based white grease suited for long-term lubrication for metal parts and assemblies. Recommended by ETA for lubrication of movement calibers 251.262, 251.272, etc. This grease has been said to be similar to the popular Moebius D5 but with a less fluid viscosity. Molykote DX paste was originally designed for Sliding surfaces and friction contacts exposed to heavy loads, requiring "clean" lubrication, especially at low to medium speeds. Used successfully, for example, on many friction contacts of electrical and domestic appliances, packaging and office machinery, precision instruments, machinery in foodstuffs and beverages industry, as well as in textile and plastic processing machinery. But its versatile properties have proven to work well on many types of watches including certain applications in mechanical chronograph systems and the aforementioned ETA calibers. Made in Germany. Molykote DX Paste Grease for Watch Movements ETA Calibers and Chronograph Applications (esslinger.com) The Art of Oiling in Watchmaking - Lubrication 101 — NO BS WATCHMAKER

"Let me know who has "a good" one at those prices???" My 162xx cases came from watches that had been stripped for their movements. They were relatively 'cheap' when I bought mine (around $150USD) and now the cases are a LOT more on eBay, Chrono 24 etc because of the insane escalation in rolex prices. Besides that, many of these cases are 25 or 30 years old now and rotted out by corrosion. All but one of mine are in 90% condition. Also have one machined to accept a rolex 3035 or ETA 2836. So...imho $300 to $400 USD is a reasonable price today for a 162xx case in good condition that probably needs detailing. Back when I first bought the cases they were easy to find because 'pickers' were buying 162xx DJ and 152xx OPD at watch shows by the dozens just to get the movements. They sometimes stripped them down on the spot and sold the cases/bracelets/dials and put the movements in clear plastic movement cups to take with them. That is where I got most of mine. The movements ended up in fully signed, near perfect 18K DJ cases/bracelets/dials and were resold. Some of the movements were converted to Day-Date and sold as Prez models and a few were converted to 18K submariners. One guy I knew back then already had 50 or more watches in a box that he had bought when I talked to him. This was in Orlando FL in the 1990s. A watch/diamond trader friend got two of the converted 18KYG Prez watches with cal 3135 from 'a guy' in Miami FL without the seller or him knowing they were conversions. He finally got his $$ back. I saw a Prez conversion kit from date to day-date on eBay a while back and there is a 15xx to GMT conversion on there now. The GMT kit is incomplete (no cal ring spacer etc.) but it will make the conversion. It is better than what I used to put my 'shortcut 1655' together but the cost is about $1000 more. GMT | 24 Hour | Conversion Kit | Fits Rolex Movement 1560 | 1570 With Date | eBay 3135 Rolex day date kit. Used parts rolex. | eBay Another guy I knew was from another country and he sold signed fake 14K and 18K cases/bracelets/bezels etc for years at shows and by telephone 'on memo'. On memo = if he knew you, he sent the parts and you paid for them in 30 days or less. He also sold tutone conversions to change a steel DJ/OPD over to steel/14K or 18K...dial, crown, bezel, and bracelet. Tutone was hot back then. Funny story about him...he had a retail store (in NYC iirc) and the Feds raided it and took every rolex watch and rolex part they could find, tore the place up, and charged him with a half dozen felonies. When he went before a judge to plead his case, the guy had a Hot Dog lawyer plus a 'rolex expert'. The Hot Dog talked the judge into allowing the expert to examine the watches etc. that the Feds had confiscated. It was all 100% genuine! The dumb azzed Feds had scooped up all genuine watches and parts while throwing boxes, furniture, tools, show cases etc. everywhere. The fake stuff was somewhere else. The guy sued everyone involved, I do not know how he came out on damages etc. but he got his stuff back. Most of it anyway. The Feds got the last laugh though. They banned him from entering the USA because of being charged with the felonies, even though the charges were dropped, and when he arrived back in the USA from an overseas trip, they took his passport and shipped him right back out. Have not heard of him being back in 15 or 20 years. I put the last 14K OPD bezel from him on a drowned tutone case/bracelet I sold as parts/junk about five years ago (with full disclosure about the bezel swap). It had been stored for a long time full of water (cal 3035) before I got it and the SS/18K oyster bracelet looked like a bicycle chain. The 18K bezel was just about the only good part on it. Paid $400 for it, sold it for $400, got a better bezel. One of my Bigger Deals. A famous watch buyer/seller/trader once told me: "If you want to retire with $1 million worth of watches...start out with 3 or 4 million dollars." J3/amc

That was one row. Here's another row... I'll admit some of it is genuine.

Since a replica is a replica no matter what, maybe a builder might look for a good genuine 162xx case for $300/$400 rather than go with a $600/$800 higher grade replica case. No one will ever convince me a $700+ replica case is much better than the average $50 to $100 replica case although the higher $$ cases have been detailed and have good numbers and letters. You could leave the lug holes as is and just use genuine spec spring bars to preserve the value of the case. A later 162xx case with blind lug holes would need to be drilled all the way through. My 16220 case is an L serial number from around 1989. Here is a thread from 14 years back about using a rlx 16234 case for a '1016' project. After finishing this project 'Stilty' sold me his leftover '1016' dials when he left the replica hobby and one of them is in my '1016' pictured above. He also sold me the leftover '1016' bezels he had cnc machined in a custom fabricating shop in Canada...the 316L stainless bezels are identical to genuine 1016 bezels. All of his projects were first class, he was the 'Rolojack' of the forum back then and I still have a 15200 OPD that he put together with genuine case, dial, hands, calendar ring, crown etc with a nos 12892 ETA in it. I'll dig it out sooner or later and post some pictures of it. The hands were modified to fit and a genuine rlx 3135 date wheel was used because they turn the same direction as an ETA 28xx. The only way anyone could tell it is not 100% genuine without opening it up is the time sets ahead by turning the crown counterclockwise where a 3135 turns clockwise. A few pics of my very first vintage Franken project - The Rolex Area - RWG bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Eterna 12892 (ETA 2892) (ranfft.de) "Hopefully the mods will help you get into your Automatico login! I am sure we all know you are Automatico!" I am still looking for my amc PW. I have a metal candy box with all my PW in it from the past 25+ years and can't find it...it also has my AOL dial-up PW in it! Anyone remember when TimeZone com came to the USA from Singapore? That's when internet 'watch talk' really took off. Maybe the PW fell into my 'A21' parts junk... "You have mail!"

Picture 3 heading should read: Genuine 16220 case with case tube: Can not edit posts. Maybe I can find my 'automatico' PW and change back. Found a couple ETA 955.xxx movements lost since 2002 but can't find my PW. Have an empty 160xx case for cal 3035 somewhere and if it shows up, I'll measure it and post the results. J3/amc

In 2008 (iirc) I stuck a '1016' together using this 16220 case and a 1570 movement with genuine dial. I took it apart soon after but still have the case. Also have a few unsigned replica '16200' type cases so I compared the two. Q...Why? A...So if anyone is going to put a '1016' together this shows two options. Cases side by side: The replica 'DJ' and modern replica explorer cases are the same depending on if made for 2824 or 2836 akaik. The lugs on this replica have no holes and the early 16200 case had holes and has been drilled out to 1.25/1.30mm. This replica case is made for ETA 2836 but many are made for ETA 2824, JMB '1016' for example. All genuine 16200 had cal 3135, a 3035 will not fit. This 16220 mid case is 35.3mm wide and the replica case is 35.5mm wide. The 16220 mid case is 5.0mm thick and the replica case is 6.05mm thick. My JMB mid case is approximately 5.0mm +/-, it is hard to measure with it all put together. The 2836 cases are about 1mm thicker than 2824 cases. You can see the difference in them below the rounded side of the mid case and a small non rounded area where the case back meets the case. The 16220 bezel is 34.7mm OD...it is an ST bezel cut to fit a GS 22 crystal. The replica bezel is 35.3mm OD...it came on the case. The case neck on the replica is OEM spec and the bezel will have to be machined to fit a 25-22 OEM spec 1016 crystal. The 16220 case with GS 22 crystal is 13.25mm thick. The replica case with sapphire crystal is 12.65mm thick and a GS 22 will add about .5mm +/-. My JMB case with a GS 22 is 13.0mm thick. Rule of thumb: A genuine 16220 case will work with a 2824 and a genuine 16000 type case will work with a 2836...no guarantees. Lug space on this genuine 16220= 20.04mm, this replica case = 20.05mm. Genuine 16220 dial seat OD = 28.0mm. Dial seat ID = 27.5mm. Genuine 16220 will work with 1016 genuine spec dial. Replica case dial seat OD = 29.6mm, ID = 27.5mm so a case with a 29.5/29.6mm dial seat should accept an oem spec 27.9mm dial for a 1016 project but you will need the dial and movement mounted securely. From an earlier post: Case necks on 16xx, 16xxx, 162xx DJ and 1016 are 29.5mm OD. Bezels for 16xx, 16xxx, 162xx are 30.4mm ID. Bezels for 1016 are 31.0 ID. Dials for 1016 are 27.9mm OD, same as 36mm QS DJ. Genuine 15220 case with case tube: Replica case without case tube. You can see the extra thickness below the rounded mid case where it contacts the case back. My JMB '1016' Typos are free. J3/Amc

"Just where to buy one?" Since Omega has stopped selling all but a few parts to 'unauthorized' repair shops and parts supply houses, movements are very hard to find and high $$. For this reason, I would consider a regular ETA 255.xxx as long as it fits Ok in the case. The hands will fit but I do not remember if there were any issues with the new movement being too thin or anything else. Since the watch is 20+ years old and not a collector item the different movement will not hurt the value very much. As far as that goes, an ETA 955.xxx might also work and they are a lot less $$. Just be sure to get one the same size and date offset as the original movement because 955.xxx movements come in 10 1/2L and 11 1/2 L sizes. The ETA/Omega 1438 is 2.5mm thick same as an ETA 955.xxx and a regular ETA 255.xxx shows to be 2.45mm thick. Not enough difference to matter. There are quite a few parts supply houses listed on the internet that will have new ETA movements...Cousins in the UK for instance. "Even paid £350 (?) to have it 'serviced' they then quoted £1000+ to repair the watch I bought new for $1000." They sound like a gang of crooks. I've 'serviced' quite a few ETA 255. and 955. movements and the only hard thing about it is lining the step motor pivots up in the plates because of magnetic attraction. Many/most repair shops today have so much overhead that they have to 'steal' $$ from customers to survive. That is their problem, not yours. Imho the motto of most of today's watch repair shops should be 'Rob 'em and Rape 'em with a Smile.' Ha! What you need is someone who can do the work at a reasonable price and does not try to make a month's pay out of a two or three hour job. Other than finding an original Omega movement, the movement swap is very easy. Maybe ask friends, family etc. if they know a retired watch repair guy who still does repair work at home.

Welcome to the forum! Stick around, don't just 'hit and run'. I had an Omega 'Pre SMP' back in the 1990s with an Omega 1438 aka ETA 255.461 that would stop now and then so I put a regular ETA 255.xxx in it. Can't remember the last 3 digits but the only functional difference was the replacement had a conventional date setting method where the date in the 1438 flipped over by moving the hour hand. Do not know the difference between an Omega 1538 and 1438 but the 1438 is a 10 1/2 ligne (23.3 mm) movement and all the other ETA 255.xxx I have listed in a catalog (255.421, 255.462, 255.465, 255.495) are also 10 1/2 ligne size. 1L = 2.12mm. They all are at or above $100 and the 255.462 is $125. My catalog is from November 2020 so the prices have probably changed since then. Btw, there are two used 1538 on eBay...one for $295 and one for $478. (!!!) Good luck! From: Omega caliber 1438 » WatchBase Brand: Omega Reference: 1538 Base: ETA 255.461 Movement: Quartz Display: Analog Diameter: 23.30 Jewels: 6 Reserve: 26280 Date: Date Hands: Hours, Minutes, Seconds Additionals: Chronometer Omega caliber 1438 Brand: Omega Reference: 1438 Base: ETA 255.461 Movement: Quartz Display: Analog Diameter: 23.30 Jewels: 6 Reserve: 26280 Date: Date Hands: Hours, Minutes, Seconds Additionals: Chronometer

"I'd figure the big question is can you fit a plastic crystal to a rafflesdials.com explorer case? I'd think it can be done with a little bit of work. And a few plastic crystals!" Case necks on 16xx, 16xxx, 162xx DJ and 1016 are 29.5mm OD. Bezels for 16xx, 16xxx, 162xx are 30.4mm ID. Bezels for 1016 are 31.0 ID. Dials for 1016 are 27.9mm OD, same as 36mm QS DJ. So...a case with a 29.5mm case neck and dial seat that will accept a 27.9mm dial should work for a 1016 project. No guarantees and I'll check a few cases tomorrow and make changes if there are mistakes. J3/Amc

Model 1003 from early 1960s... Case is 34mm, cal 1560, Yuki dial, ST hands, GS crystal. I've posted this one before iirc, ran across it when hunting for the AKs. One Air-King (!) and one Air-King (?) Upper one is 100% a genuine 14000M with 3130 and the lower one is a replica '14000' with swiss ETA 2836/sapphire. The nos replica 'AK' has a 36mm case with 20mm hoods and the slightly used genuine AK has a 34mm case with 19mm hoods. The replica keeps time as close as the genuine model and the running reserve is about the same. Do not know what made the zit at 49 min, the bezel is fine. Posted the 14000M before, please excuse the ratty pics. Nos Daffy Diver from 1994. Daffy Duck was 'born' in the late 1930s. J3/Amc

Here is the post on my JMB '1016' project: JMB '1016' project update... - The Rolex Area - RWG J3/Amc