marlin22

Even if they are different people they are still co-conspirators in the antics they pull. I myself sold him a case, and he seemed like a stand up guy, but if Jeff cherished his reputation and cared about what was going on, he should have walked up to his co-worker and told him to stop all the crap he was doing. By the looks of it he had ample time and knowledge to do that, yet he opted not to. I also notice that some of your posts are at all hours of the day and night, man those are some long hours you guys put in at the office. The admin team has been very professional even now with all the insults, he (GSW) is still on this forum and is able to sell watches, only difference is he now has to do it with many eyes on him. So don't despair you can still get his mods and his watches but on a level playing field.

BTW if you are co-workers why would you make a post on this thread showing your interest on the 187(see below), when you could have told him from across the room.

More red flags!!

http://www.rwg.cc/topic/145443-fs-two-panerai-one-rolex-187-243-rolex-explorer/

Question what exactly does G.S.W stand for? Are those your initials?

I’ve stayed quiet long enough! This might ruffle some feathers and if this gets me banned then so be it!

It is always a shame when something like this happens; there is always enough room out here for everyone to sell their watches. However, the tactics he used were unconventional and inappropriate even if you are coworker! The example Andy used was my own sales thread, because of his (GSW) comments I had to go out of my way to prove a point, and raised alarms in the minds of many of my buyers’ minds. On account of this, I had to go out of my way to silence the skeptics and show all my buyers I had not taken them for a ride or swindled them out of their hard earned money. The other thing I must put forth at this point is the fact that he was soliciting members who showed interest in my watches and was telling them I was overcharging and not using gen Panerai parts only ETA while he was using only gen Panerai(questionable). I am sure some of you reading this experienced this very thing. Please read below for a small lesson on OEM parts and the 6497 movement. As for overcharging, this man charged some unsuspecting member almost $800 for a 217 that was nothing more than a noob watch with ETA crown and ratchet wheel and incabloc mod nothing more. He stats he polished the bridges, not possible to make any visible deference unless you polish so much you strip off the platinum plating on the bridge and expose the brass below, this has been tested and proven and posted by me on this very forum. In essence this watch was an Asian movement watch with 3 ETA parts that should not have sold for more than $400 - $500 dollars. Again a beautiful watch just the way the sales thread reads is embellished.

The guy puts together good watches, no one is taking that away from him and being in the watch business, as he is, he is able to acquire a lot of parts that most of us cannot. But, as Wolf stated, he uses a great deal of salesmanship tactics and embellishments on his sales threads. One example is on his $3k 127 grail. If the buyer would post pictures of the watch when he receives it, would be great, this would verify or prove the picture was wrong, please see below. If you scrutinize the picture of this watch the knowledgeable person can see some things that he states on his description just don’t match. The most obvious is the swan neck regulator or dagger regulator, he states it is gen OP, if you look at the picture it looks flat, the gen is not flat it is thick (see picture, now it might just be the angle of the picture, but you be the judge) this alone takes away from all the effort put into this watch. The center wheel looks to be ETA from a 6497-2 movement but the 2 and 3 look to be rep., judging by their shiny reflectivity. He also makes his post very vague as to whether the main plate is Swiss or Asian, a major factor on the price, pretty bridges on an Asian main plate defeats the purpose and the high price. The bridges, swan neck and mm screw are gen. OP, but the rest he states as OP gen. are subject to scrutiny and are ETA OEM.

I had the common decency not to point these things out, as another member stated NOT TO ROCK THE BOAT, but now seeing what he has done, I think it time to bring out the dirty laundry and clean it up for the sake of the membership on this forum.

Lastly on OEM, for those who don’t know or understand OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. To make it clear Panerai did not invent or produce the 6497 movement. It is produced by the worlds largest manufacture of Swiss movements in the world, a company called ETA. This being said Panerai does make their own in hose movements called their manifactura line which includes the P.2002/1(see picture above), that is why the rep factories are having so much trouble reping these movements as opposed to the 6497 that has been in production and common for decades.

There seems to be a serious misconception about OEM, OEM = ETA! ETA makes the movement and all the internal parts that go with it, Panerai makes the bridges and other ornamental parts on the watch, what does this mean, well when he states that his OEM parts are Panerai that is 90% untrue, and using this as a tactic to get more money for his product. Just because it came with a Panerai bubble pack does not make it Panerai. A simple example is your FORD car or truck, it is assembled by FORD but the OEM parts that go into it are made in subcontracted factories in Mexico, now they are not FORD MOTOR CO. but the parts are called OEM because they are made for FORD. So please learn to see beyond the smoke and mirrors, as I said before the watches he makes are beautiful and I have no doubt that he is a good guy, it’s just the way he went about it that has left a bad taste in my mouth.

I am sorry for the long rant, but I did not like what was done to me by him (GSW) or his coworker or whatever! Either way it's still inappropriate at best and smells like a scam at worst! The fact that you are coworkers shouldn't change a thing and might make things even worst, you still were conspiring to crap on threads. And how coincidental you (GSW) went after me without merit and even when you were proven wrong you did not have the common decency to admit it. You know what you did, nough said.....

Beautiful watch, but if you look into it, you will find the biggest problem is the quick date set push button. It is very poorly engineered, with only a very weak C clamp holding it in. As a result most of them break loose, a frustrating problem. Also, I wouldn't trust the watch near water, there is no way of knowing the seal is good on that QD button, and I am sure no one wants to learn the hard way. Lume isn't all that great either, but maybe others can chime in on the characteristics of the lume on the gen.. Lastly I have also read that the color of the lume has a tendency to go grey or loose its original color, not to mention the color of the lume on the hour and minute hands is inaccurate.

I am not slamming the watch, I have owned 2 and still own one, I love it! You just have to treat it with TLC and know that in the end it is a rep and they will always have flaws, otherwise you'd be paying over $10k for it.

As for the dealer, any trusted dealer on this forum who advertises it can help you. Only problem is I don't think they are available anymore, maybe someone can chime in and clear that up or verify.

There are more in the works, but they are all sold right now. Might put one up with minor defects for reduced price, but still on hold right now.

My latest 127 build headed to it's new home in London enjoying in it's last day in Miami.

Lounging poolside taking in the rays..

Most gen. like rep. movement to date!!

Life in the FAST LANE....

Mimosas anyone.....

Thanks for looking.......

Had a rare occurrence today, I had all three variations on modern Panerai 6497 styles on my table. So I figured I'd share..

Here are the watches they will go into:

PAM 127 (top left)

PAM 217 (top right)

PAM 111 (bottom center)

All these movements are in different stages of Modding so they are missing some parts and screws. They were being oiled as the pictures were taken. All are built on the ETA 6497 notice the stamp.

The last pictures are of a fully modded and 99% completed 127 that is going to it's new home in London, notice the long micrometric screw. This watch can actually be regulated through the MM screw for micro regulation, just like the gen.

Thanks for looking........

WOW unbelievable, something's not right there. Way way wwwaaayyyy too long a wait...

REP all the way...

Good point! This is as close as I dare on the inside corners..

Thoughts?

Just made some mods to the CG, see below:

Thoughts please?

No that is an ETA incabloc, I have been thinking of trying to machine the asian ones since these are so hard to come by. I have had some on back order for 3 months now.

Bumroxas, no it is not a gen movement, but its looks pretty close. I had never handled a titanium watch before and I must say I like the light weight feel of the watch. Your arm doesn't feel like it is ready to fall of at the end of the day, very comfortable indeed....

Just finished my first PAM 177 build and man I love it. Never knew how sweet the 177 was, it has everything the 111 has without the heavy weight. Took some quick and dirty pictures, hope you feel the same way I do.

ETA 6497-1 stamp

Lume shot

Natural light

Thanks for looking:D

Congratulations, beautiful collection...Enjoy!!!!!

Hi Guys,

I was able to see first hand a gen. movement up close and discovered that the Panerai gear train is pearlized, I have been playing with this for some time now and I think I have perfected it. I will be adding this to my builds from now on, please tell me what you think.

Here are some pictures (please bear in mind the lighting is different on every picture, I will be taking some better picture when the builds are done)

Here is the movement 90% compleste

30% competed stock movement on the left on gear train modification / 90% competed on the right with modified gear train

Gen vs. Project

Three way comparison ETA vs, Asian vs. Project

Some Gen. shots

Thanks for looking and please give me you thoughts, ideas and opinion, they are very important.......

Justin,

Be aware the movements aren't cheap! There is an Angelus 240 for sale on WC for $600.00, but it needs to be modded to work as a wristwatch. Good luck with your project.....

UPDATE:

The gen. movement is a 6497-2 but, on the newer movements it is not stamped on the Panerai movements, in its place is a Panerai stamped serial number of some kind (see picture below)

Some things can never be replicated, I just try to bring it as close as possible

In reality the only difference between the 6497-1 and the 6497-2 is, one beats @ 18000vph and the other @ 21600vph respectively. My builds beat @ 21600vph

Pre-V means Pre-Vandome I believe they were out from 1993-1997, the 127 came out in 2002. These cases are 44mm the 127 is 47mm.

I've been looking for the 6497-2's but they come at a premium when you can find them. The 6497-1 is less expensive and more readily available, then just gear it out with the 6498-2 high beat gears. But I am still looking and inquiring. Will update....

WOW! Absolutely beautiful work!!!!!

I know how we all love pictures, so here are some more pictures of the E-series movement after alterations outside of the watch. Only thing that is missing is the longer micrometric screw, I'll have to get keep looking.

Hey Guys.

Just finished the 217 build and wanted to share, as well as get some feedback on it, and while I had the light box up I also photographed the new updated 127

This is as close to gen as you can get without spending $20k...LOL

Here are the pictures:

217 with full modding

Natural light picture

127 with full modding

Notice the gold-leaf on all text on movement, no more yellow pain!

Natural light picture

List of MODS:

1. ETA 6497-1 movement with ETA stamped and with damascening pattern on baseplate (this has to be engine turned and rhodium plated as they do not come with the baseplate decorated from ETA)

2. Changed ETA balance wheel for rep. for more gen. look

3. Touch up Noob bridges (rhodium plating is sometimes necessary on some bridges, as they have uneven plating from factory.

4. Changed thin dagger regulator with thick dagger

5. ETA gears

6. Polished ratchet and crown wheel bevels (later replaced with ETA.)

7. Replaced incabloc shock system with Y incabloc

8. Tightened CG lever and recessed pin

9. In some cases shave down the CG so it sits closer to the case

10. Gold leaf applied to all text on movement (127 only)

11. In some cases a crystal change is necesary

12. Replace hands with more gen. spec gold superlumed hands

13. Cleaned, oiled and adjusted (regulated)

Thanks for looking

I don't like the blue AR on the DSN. I have a DSN that I polished the AR off, maybe I'll try that. The EL's are too hard to come by.

Anybody try this crystal?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAM-127-SAPPHIRE-CRYSTAL-PANERAI-WATCH-1950-47-FIDDY-/160658371241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2567fc32a9#ht_4934wt_1197

What crystal do you recommend from who?

I'll look for one,thanks