The Mentalist

A quick difference my daughter just picked up was the different size of the pinion on the center wheel, and she is only 8!

Lol, you beat me to it

If you look on the gen around the jewels are you will see i shiny circle where a 45 degree chamfer has been cut, also 1mm on your swans neck screw would not be enough to fully adjust the arm over to the minus side. by the way i always use my camera phone for shots like these

I see what you mean now about the chamfer on the jewel recess. On mine there is a chamfer, but it is shallower than on the gen but it is loupe stuff.

The swan's neck screw is about 3 mm in total length.

I have also noticed that the sunburst on the larger winding gear does not extend all the way to the teeth. It stops about 1mm short of the teeth.

Here's a slightly better pic with increased resolution:

Firstly yours is on the right and the jewel recess are not counter sunk at all and i bet the at the screw for the swans neck is too short for any more adjustment.

Also the shean on the top plate does not look so satiny as the gen the polish on the back of the crown guard also tells

What is the 'jewel recess'? And what is 'countersinking' and what does it look like?

The screw for the swans neck has about 1mm or more left on it.

I'll take your word on the satiny top plate sheen as the lighting here is [censored] and the pic was taking with a cameraphone.

Let's leave the crown guard out of it as I want to limit discussion purely to the movements.

Ok Mr X-Ray vision, talk me through it. Here's a pic of my 111e with a comparison shot of a Gen.

I am refering to the e series not the h series with the cote de geneve as you mentioned. Please point out exactly what differs. They look identical to me. I have handled a Gen 111e shortly after I bought my rep and the movement looks identical and the bridge stamping looks identical also.

An electron microscope or anyone from 3 feet away. An AD with a loupe not being able to tell the difference? I'm sorry, but I have to call this as BS. Anyone on this board can tell the difference with a half decent photo. No offense intended but you have never seen a real PAM movement if you think the finish on the new rep[ 111e compares to a gen. I don't care if you go on the risti site or not. If you don't believe me go post a pic of your watch on any GEN website and say your thinking about buying it. I'd give it 5 minutes before it is outted as fake.

Ok, point something out that would give it away (based on the movement ONLY). Please don't say 'finish' as that is an all encompassing term that could mean anything. Give me specifics.

I would love to see you see the movement inside my watch from three feet away. Now, that would be one helluva trick.

I think what they are saying is that the parts are not interchangable for ETA and Chinese in many cases. Most watchmakers cannot order parts for the 100% asian movement that beats at 21k. I can also dispell that the movement in your 111e is identical to a gen 111e. Maybe in a picture, but the finish on the gen is 100x better than any rep I have ever seen. In the hands on any Risti the finish will be a dead giveaway. I agree the bridges, ingravings, beat, and shock protection are good, but no way the finish on the bridges is identical to gen.

What do you mean by 'finish'? Are you talking about something only a scanning electron microscope will pick up? The finish on mine is flawless, as good if not better than on some of the gens I've seen. I'll wager than an AD would have trouble calling out a good Asian rep movement without a loupe and a gen for comparison.

Think I've lost the will to live reading this thread... :ohmy:

Mine is an issue of servicing my reps. Every watch guy I've tried won't touch the Asian movements, they'll gladly work on an ETA though, so they are my preference.

Tell 'em what you like, I doubt they'll know the difference. The Asian decorated 6497 movement is identical in virtually every way (at least on my 111e). Have a look on Paneristi and then compare the pic of the 111e with the rep and I tell you, it is identical in every way. Why spend more on a visually inaccurate 'Swiss' movement? If you service the Asian movement regualrly it should last and perform exactly as the Gen does.

Holy crap that thing is gorgeous!

Reminds me of a love child of a Planet Ocean and Submariner.

clenbuterol gets my vote.. T3 .. ahh man this is just like watches their all my favorites .. what's the stack MT?

The stack is good ol' classic and dependable Cytomel, Clen and Winny with some Proviron put in for hardness and maybe some Tren if you can get it midway thru just to take advantage of the increased protein synthesis caused by the Cytomel. 12 weeks of that and you'll look like you're carved out of marble.

there is something brand new out that does not retain water and burns body fat, told about it yesterday.. it is a precursor .. and promotes very lean mass... going to see about it now.. will get back,,

@Ry .. but remember what ever supplement you take you still have to work out with a passion for results to be seen. many people think they can take creatine (for example) and bulk up .. not true.. you have to work out much harder than normal to see ultimate results.. MT I'm sure is aware of that. .. what ever supplement .. it's the "singer not the song"

In other words you get back exactly what you put into your training.

I was a personal trainer for years.. now just help for the joy of it.. start slowly and build up .. it is a life style change .. that is actually what getting in shape is ..not just excersize

and just an add on. GH levels .. unless u are taking HGH, spikes during workouts and then when sleeping.. HGH keeps GH levels red lined 24/7

Absolutely correct. There is no 'silver bullet'. Steroids, HGH, Insulin etc all have their uses but it all boils down to training like a muthafuka, eating clean and getting lots of sleep. Ergogenics just allow you to train harder and longer and see more results for your efforts.

That said, it doesn't seem like you need HGH. A good thermogenic like clenbuterol or if you can get it, some T3, and you'll be dodging the belly in no time.

You could give GABA (Gamma Amino Butyric Acid) a go. It has a proven effect in boosting natural GH levels by several hundred percent. I've used it with great success in the past and have noticed a noticeable drop in body fat and an increase in lean mass.

body builder died of lasix .. on stage i remember .. aldactone .. gives u full body cramps... but gets u to 2% body fat..

Mohammed 'Momo' Benaziza back in 1992

He was on both Lasix and Aldactone. I think Lasix was by far the worst. It's a loop diuretic which causes potassium excretion as opposed to the mild Aldactone, which is potassium sparing. The Lasix caused his muscles to into shutdown because of lack of electrolytes and ultimately cause him to have heart failure.

Munzer's last cycle:

Weeks 1-10

ephedrine

aspirin

clenbuterol

valium

captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--

cytomel

Weeks 1-5

500mg daily of test enanthate

152mg daily of parabolan

150mg daily of dianabol

150mg daily of halotestin

20 IU daily of HGH

20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8

300mg daily of masteron

152mg daily of parabolan

250mg daily of winstrol tabs

150mg daily of halotestin

50mg daily of winstrol inj

24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10

200mg daily of masteron

100mg daily of winny inj

200mg daily of halotestin

400mg daily of winny tabs

24 IU daily of HGH

Insulin daily

IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show

aldactone, lasix

That is some serious juice, even by the psycho standards of today's pro's.

Hahahaha. Good one.

But don't tell anyone that

I forgot. Anavar also doesn't give you the shits.

Here's an interesting question. How many of today's so-called 'natural' champions are truly natural? Natural only means passing a test for known illegal ergogenics. Balco made a fortune from THG and I do not doubt there are dozens if not tens of dozens of 'designer steroids' that will allow an athlete to sail through a drug test taking these thing with total impunity.

What is the difference between popping a course of anavar or loading up on Creatine? One's an illegal steroid, the other is a legal sports supplement. It's all a matter of labelling.

That said freakishness does have a limit. I much prefer Arnie or Frank Zane to someone like Big Ron Coleman. Too much growth hormone and GH turned him (and today's generation of IFBB pro's) into a fat gutted shapeless freak.

EDIT: I totally agree with you BT. It's good to see another brother of the Iron game on here.

As a species, we owe it ourselves to push ourselves to be the best we can be and that includes using the most powerful muscle of them all, the brain, to enhance ourselves. It's no different from developing faster racing cars, we are just developing our bodies through science. You may call it cheating but that is just a matter of perspective depending on the rules. If steroids were legal, would it still be cheating? The science is there, people will use it or be tempted to use it. As long as there are no serious health or social ramifications, I say let it happen.

Personally I have no problems with the juice. I have been seriously bodybuilding for many years and have taken virtually everything under the sun with NO ill effects. I feel that the governments around the world have totally overblown the dangers of these drugs. These are essentially benign compounds that cause no social problems. They are essentially cosmetic and ergogenic compounds that have a positive effect on a person's physical condition with little or no serious side effects compared to OTC compounds. If you were to line up a bottle of dianabol, acetominophen and valium and you were to take an overdose (ie, above the therapeutic dose) of any of them, Dianabol would be the one that won't kill you. As with any class of drugs, you have extremes where some are very safe and some can be very dangerous. Deca Durabolin is virtually harmless, even in high dosages whereas Oxymetholone can land you in hospital with liver failure. On the same note, with painkillers you have on one extreme Aspirin and on the other, Morphine. It is widely accepted in the medical profession that Anabolic Steroids as a class of drugs exhibit generally fewer dangerous side effects than for instance, analgesics. The stigma around steroids is nothing except propaganda and scaremongering misinformation propagated by the authorities.

Well, you can get the swiss one fixed by a watchsmith if it ever breaks. Plus the main gear wheels have a nice starburst finish on the swiss. And finally, there's the cool swan neck regulator on the swiss version that the asian version here doesn't have. Other than that, probably not too many differences

If it's a rep, you'll have the same trouble getting it fixed whether it be a Swiss movement or a Chinese movement.

Here's a picture of a gen 111 from Paneristi :

I've done a side to side comparison with my Asian movement 111E ultimate and the movements are IDENTICAL. I kid you not. Starburst finish on the winding gears and working swan neck. It even has the Incabloc the same as on the pic.

Check out Angus's Asian 11E here: http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/pure...RRIVAL/00-2007%

Spot the difference. I can't.

The only draw back is the watch comes with an Asian 6497. It is time to start looking for a Swiss E series dagger swan neck 6497 movement....

Why is that a drawback? I see no real difference between an asian and a swiss 6497 apart from price. Can someone chime in on why the Chinese 6497 is so maligned?

Panerai's. I thought they were big, gay and ugly. But my 111E grew on me.

Funny, my girlfriend still refers to it as my 'big gay watch'.

Ferengi rule of acquisition #141: Only fools pay retail.

I need me some bigger lobes.

Trust me, I feel your pain. I've been trying to find a decent JLC Reverso for over six months and all the dealers don't have them even though they are listed on their sites.

None, because Londoners are watch philistines.

these street vendors tell you what you want to hear and then run away faster than you can blink.. its like this *blink* and wham they're gone...

The Chinese sprint team should clean up at the Olympics next year then. They'll be easy to spot. They will be at the top of the podium wearing triple gold wrapped replica Medals.

guys this is funny, we buy reps from them, they buy gens..

Which, with any luck, they will probably end up using to make 1:1 reps to flog us which then funds more Gen's . It's called the karmic circle of the rep world. Eventually some lucky bastard is going to end up in WIS Nirvana surrounded by more Gen's than he can shake a stick at and will probably start dealing soft drugs or make rap records to alleviate the boredom.