Craytonic

To convict under 18 USCS § 2320(a), government must prove that defendant (1) trafficked or attempted to traffic in goods or services, (2) did so intentionally, (3) used counterfeit mark on or in connection with such goods and services, and (4) knew mark was counterfeit. United States v Habegger (2004, CA4 NC) 370 F3d 441.

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Apologies if this is already out there. I thought everyone might want to know the actual law, not speculation, on how the government regulates the sale of counterfit goods. I skimmed 50 cases. All defendants are classified as dealers/traffickers. However, in one case, charged were brought against someone for trafficking in two (2) replicas (he got off though, but not on quantity)! Also, police were able to get a search warrant in another case where the post office suspected someone of "trafficking". Intent was key in all the cases as to the counterfit nature of the watch. Almost all cases were against big-time dealers (jewlers, etc). Our main issue is the trafficking part of the statute. Our main concern here is "dispose of" which is not defined in the statute. Big surprise, it is obviously the congressional catch-all. Most definitions of "dispose" entail transferring property, so it probably doesn't apply to individual ownership if the buyer is the final destination. HOWEVER, I think if you more than 2 replicas (and certainly >10). The courts would infer intent to traffic. This is done ALL THE TIME in drug cases. Nevertheless, I don't see the government bringing criminal charges against anyone, not worth the time. A civil suit would be entirely different, and I did not research that. perhaps another time. These are just my very brief thoughts; I hope to read the statute more carefully later and make comments. Here is the actual statute:

So true... gen boards always seem like back patting and circle jerk to me.

I doubt we affect them that much. How many people who have the $$ to drop on a real PP are going to order a fake one anyways?

Shim what movie is that?

I never understand some parent's affinity for random watches. My little brother bought a fake swiss army watch in DC as a gag gift for $10 and gave it to my father. It SCREAMED fake, quartz, etc. it had some sort of mood back that changed from black to bronze on occasion, never really figured that out. Some sort of wanna-be PVD coating he scratched to pieces on the outside. Wore it till the first battery died, replaced it, and wore again every day. He went through two bands as well after the first velcro NATO style one wore out. I go to visit this year, notice he isn't wearing it and asked what happened. He said it died and he had "tried to open it" which apparently involved a screw driver, a hammer, and possibly a wrench. Needless to say mother bought him a new, real watch ( she hated the fake one anyways). I can't believe he got so much use out of a $10 street side rep though, but I sure am glad it died.

Nice vintage job.

Tis true... Was in Sak's 5th ave in ATL last weekend w/ my girlfriend on way back to masters; I was just goofing in watches while my girlfriend looked at shoes/sunglasses/etc. Was wearing the big 127, saleswoman tripped over herself to pull out a few cartiers even though I told her I was just goofing and waiting on my girl. Tried on the Santos 100 Chrono though.. MONSTER watch, that thing is huge!

Its for those who like ferrari but can't afford the car.

You need a rolex.

I reported it to ebay and messaged the high bidder... too bad there is really know way to prove it outside the serial #.

I have a thread on this going in Auction scams...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353390/thre...DE+PAM127+FIDDY. real one...

The chopard from EL is nice on the wrist.

Looked at it some more... I bet it is one of the original movements dropped in a rep case. Certificate looks exactly like the one I got from eddie - the printing is just a little hazy. The only thing strange is that the # on the box matches the # on the watch! 1/1950 chance that it is real I guess.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Panerai-Pam00127-1950-...1QQcmdZViewItem OK, my first post in this section. Have been thinking of getting a real one. I have the super-duper one from EL. The one in the auction looks real in every way but something is off... but can't place it. I flip over the rep on my wrist and it hits me... same serial number on my rep as the auction E0581/1950. BUT the movement on this one is more correct. Humm.... Anyone else think this is fake? The matching # is too big a coincidence. Could someone notify Ebay? I have no idea how to do so.

Very impressive, can't wait to get my fiddy back from The Zigmeister.

Eddie is the best dealer I have ever dealt with (I have been through most) and have nothing but the utmost respect for him. I literally can't tell the 127 I got from him, after fixing the cannon pin, is not the real deal. I like that he made us aware of what is coming. Saves the buyer from buying a soon-to-be outdated one from him or anyone else. I am looking at the post on another site and he states clearly it is a pic of the original. Eddie is NOT a scammer by any means, unlike other dealers I have NEVER read any complaints about him. Communicating with him is fast and easy. BTW eddie if you read this send me that background info on the Chopard I love it and wore it to a black tie event last week, beautiful watch.

n.b. - the tissot is digital

I think tissot makes a nice digital one w/ a compass and other cool functions... was featured in the movie "Mr. & Ms. Smith"

LOL, guess everything about the new bond movie is less than ideal... both the actor and the watch!

They don't have to post prices, they just choose to because customers would go elsewhere where prices are posted (K-Mart or Ford dealer). The prices at a car dealership don't have too much meaning anways. Plenty of places don't have prices for every item (jewelery store for instance).

Have the nato strap, looks great on a sub. Just like to mix things up on occasion.

Thanks that is perfect. Obviously not the look for everyone (and certainly not a gay look) but fun on occasion if one is younger and can pull it off.

Anyone know know to get grosgrain straps in different sizes? I know brooks brothers carries them (http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=232&Product_Id=1049018&Parent_Id=228) but they only come in a very small size. Just curious, fun to add preppy accents for travel. I have one on my JLC Reserve de marche and it looks great!