rsv123

This wouldn't have been visible with a caseback tool. I get the impression that it was only once The Zigmeister opened the barrel that it was obvious this was a PoS movement.

Ok, so we could have been getting movements like this for a while...?

The dealers could, of course, add some value to their part of the process by closely inspecting each watch they sell to make sure that old & worn movements are returned to the source for some other person to buy.

But this is presuming that they aren't drop shipping and ever get to lay eyes on the product they ship... I think you have every right to get a new watch, or at the very least a new movement in exchange for your old one. I can see this happening more and more, as (i) they sell more watches and (ii) the people they sell them to are less likely to open the caseback for a look.

Sorry, I don't think I explained myself very clearly - I assume there is only one factory making the current version of the Steelfish? Obviously there will be any number of different factories making the wide range of rep watches that are available. If there is only one factory making the Steelfish then the dealers here will have no choice but to source the watches there, and as TTK says, you pays your money and you take the risk. The test of a dealer is what the response is when things occasionally go wrong.

I think what TTK is saying is that there could be multiple factories making a rep of a particular original watch - say the Omega SMP for example. However, there will usually be discernable differences between reps of the same watch made by different factories (eg. one factory will making the watch with hands that are too short, one will have the wrong datewheel, etc.)

Sounds like a good move - there's an eBay seller called "thewatchboys" (actually a small company who seem to do most of their selling via an eBay shop), who do a range of gator and calf straps in the sometimes odd IWC sizes like 21mm, etc.

Thanks for your reply. That would suggest that I order the watch with the strap to get the IWC buckle and then worry about getting a replacement strap that will fit the buckle.

Because the straps are so cheap many dealers will throw one in for very little extra, so do ask. It's your choice - I prefer straps on some watches and bracelets on others. It's hard to get a bracelet once you have bought the watch, but you will be able to get a strap that fits with a generic buckle fairly easily.

Well the photos of it look really terrific!

Hope you get yours this week and I hope my wife returns with the camera so I can post a few photos (although my photography skills leave a lot to be desired).

Generally leather straps on reps are junk. Especially if they are alligator/croc 'style' leather. You could pick up a nice leather strap for $40-$50 from a 3rd party supplier; that would be (and is) my choice.

Congrats on getting yours! Sounds like everyone is enjoying it!

Do you feel like it is worth the extra money? A high end rep? Just curious......

I consider a watch like a big bang high end project and that has double sided AR and no font type issues...

Just curious if a project is a small high end one, how you guys feel about light AR and date wheel issues? (perfectly acceptable issues with our standard 200-300 rep)

Is the only advantage to these projects that we just get a unique watch or is it accuracy too?

Just curious what the forum thinks, since in all fairness we are paying more and to get a pilot chrono even with issues it is worth it to me because I love the gen.

My point and question is what denotes a high end project that is 100 or so more vs. one that is not? quality wise?

I don't think the price of this rep is particularly high. I paid the exact same price for an Asian PAM Daylight when they first came out a couple of years ago (and that was supplied on a crappy strap, with no bracelet and had no A/R + the movement developed a fault within 24hrs)!

The price could go 2 ways - either other dealers start selling this, and it falls, or it really is a private project and as people start to realise they can only get one from Eddie, the price stays the same. In the past, the early adopters have typically paid more, with the price dropping as other (volume) dealers start to compete.

Limited (or no) A/R coating is not unusual on a rep at any price point. The reps that do have are the exception to the rule.

I am enjoying the watch, it's better than I had hoped in many ways, and I think I can resolve the minor problems that it has.

Datewheel, daywheel or both? It could make sense if they are usable on the GST Chrono's as well otherwise as far as I know Eddie has only sold 30 of a 100 total pieces. Well I guess it would be a labor of love. The ricky part is that the day wheel doesn't line up straight on all days on gens either. Always wondered why.

The daywheel (which I thought might be the problem) seems to line up fine. The problem is with the datewheel, since the wrong font has been used - it is ever so slightly too small - this means the date can appear slightly above the day, in the 'top' of the date window. On the gen the number fills the window, on the rep there is a tiny bit of space that allows it to be within the window but not correctly aligned with the day. Dunno why the correct font was used for one and not the other, must have been a supply/timing issue. It would be fixed by fitting just a standard ETA 7750 white on black datewheel.

On many watches it probably wouldn't bother me, but since I have a feeling this one is going to get a lot of wrist time, I think I might have to find a fix!

I picked up my 3717 on Saturday. No pics at the moment as the wife is away and has the digital camera with her. I have included a short review (after 2 days of wear) below.

The good:

• Excellent dial, everything is crisp, in the right place and the right colour.
  
• Case and bracelet well made and solid - feels heavy but not ridiculous; like some PAMs on a bracelet can.
  
• Great attention to detail, the minute hand is bent at the tip (like a gen) to reduce the parallax effect, nice signed crown, etc.
  
• Good lume. Looks like it's either real superluminova or very close, as just brief exposure to bright sunlight was enough to have the hands and the 12,3,6,9 indicies glowing like a champ (NOTE: bright sunlight in Scotland during March is like dusk in Hawaii!)
  
• No problems with the chronos - everything works, resets and feels good.
  
• Timekeeping is excellent. The watch is -3 secs after 2 days! This is the best timekeeping I have seen from an Asian 7750, ever!
  
  • The date wheel has been printed or fitted to be misaligned (and with the wrong font). You can move the position of the date using the crown to adjust it slightly, but the next day it will be misaligned again. It can look OK from some angles and bad from others. This is a great watch and it is crying out for a datewheel project. I can feel a swap with my GST chrono coming on...
    
  • "IWC" engraving on the bracelet is a little rough, looks like it has been laser etched.
    
  • A/R coating is quite light. I think the gens have pretty strong A/R coating - as this seems to often show up in photos of the gens.
    

  The ugly:

  [*]As usual for a rep the supplied strap is worthless. Looks cheap, smells like plastic and feels like plastic. Wearing it with an otherwise great looking and convincing rep is an insult to the watch and any observers. The buckle is fine, seems the same as the one from my FA Jones rep.

  Overall

  I am VERY happy with the watch, this has to be one of the most flexible watches available, it looks good with everything from jeans and a old t-shirt to a 3-piece suit. The dial is very clear and easy to read - the chronos just kind of disappear into the background when you take a quick glace to read the time, exactly as it should be. The replication of the case, dial, hands and bracelet is superb - there is nothing to fault it without resorting to a loupe. The negatives are minor and are things we can sort ourselves if they bother us.

  Accuracy: 96%

  Quality: 94%

  Overall: 95%

  

  

  

  

  

  

That is very nice looking. Good A/R certainly does add an extra dimension - especially in the believability stakes. The VC's in particular look awesome with the coating! Enjoy 'em

Well, my IWC chrono just turned up, and let me say... wow! This really is something. I'll have to leave it to the serious photographers round here to capture just how great this one is in the metal, and no photo could really capture the weight, feel, and presence of the actual piece. Yes, you could find tiny details comparing with a gen if you really had to, but IMHO nothing that should detract from the overall impact, and your enjoyment wearing it.

Thought you might like a quick wrist shot. NB I have very slim wrists!

[can't seem fix the shrinking picture thing... sorry if there's fix I ought to know about!]

Looking good! I can't wait for mine... it's nearly here, maybe tomorrow...

Good to hear a happy ending - Mark (finepics) does an excellent relume and he is based in the UK.

For the mark on the stainless steel, you could try these guys:

http://www.thewatchboys.com/

They sell a "refinishing pen" that is very good for brushed stainless or titanium. I bought one about a year ago and have found it excellent for removing small marks and scratches while preserving the brushed finish. If the mark is in a polished area you can just use regular metal polish.

The also sell good gator straps (probably not the thing for the Big Bang though). I have managed to resist the temptation to get a BB up until now, but rumours of a ceramic version are worrying my bank manager...

My last fart....4.5 seconds!!!

Chronos reset perfectly!

Impressive, very impressive - and people think mechanical chronos have no practical use!

maybe.. and I probably would have reacted differently if the comments had been directed toward his posts as opposed to his person. Or even if the comment was directed toward the watch.. you know.. the flaw is minor for the price yada yada... but to say I have no patience for YOU... without any personal provocation is pretty personal and hurtful..

I mean, I do not want to go off on a rant.. .i get your point and all.. but there has got to be a better way to tell someone that their expectations are unreasonable than that.. anyway this is off-topic so I will go away now.

I think you need to read my comment in the context of the current thread and this thread. I was losing patience with Chad and not the watch, or anyone/anything else, which is why I addressed him directly. If the worst thing anyone says to me this month is that they have lost patience with me, I will consider myself lucky.

I'll chime back in since it has returned to a discussion and not a flame war.

First....about the date wheel....was not aware of gens having this problems and none of my reps have so i'll just retract that. I do not know everything and never claimed to be an expert.

Admin...

Yes I agree with what you are saying but my thoughts are this...

I am really impressed with the reps and cannot believe their accuracy....and only believing that would make me shudder at simple issues...

Take the big bang for example...the 10 and 20 are not lined up on the dial (a simple fix in whatever program they used to print the dials is the fix)

but look at the case and strap etc........AMAZING. I could not believe it when I saw it. You must also know when a screw fell out that was annoying too. Someone put all that hard work into this watch and some factory worker cannot do his job right. It is a shame that is all......nothing I am going to lose sleep over.

So my point is someone went to alot of trouble to make that case and they did an amazing job. It is a shame that the SIMPLE thing to get right things were left out.

If the case was bad I would never notice the subdials...

The iwc pilot looks fantastic in the photos....whoever did the dial and case did a great job. If the rep was crap I would have not even noticed the date being crooked. (i retract that this is a simple fix though based on all of your comments though)

One thing I say to friends is that with rep you get ALOT for your money. I believe that. My posts might make you think otherwise but that is not the case.

The fact that the reps are so good makes the easy fix flaws more painful. That statement certainly does not mean I am not satisfied or amazed with some of these watches.

The loose screws and great bracelet/lousy dial (or vice versa) seems to be just a feature of bad Chinese QC. What is annoying here is that just about everyone in the design/manufacturing process has done their best and then 1 person responsible for part of the assembly process (or checking the dial, etc) lets the side down. I used to think it was a conspiracy (to make you buy the next model) but I think it's just the "if it's good enough, most people will buy it" mentality...

Wel you know- they're not "Fake" watches.

They're real watches, which are built to be near identical replicas of "Name" brand watches. Strip off the logo and you could sell any of these watches on ebay for double or triple what we pay- all day long.

Gen watches have issues- plenty. ALL mechanical watches have issues, period. I have had my gen Tag, Omega and Panerai watches serviced within their warranty period due to things like date wheel stuck, running 12 minutes slow a day, second hand falling off, rough grindy winding mechaism etc.

Any product made in China that is a fraction of the cost of the "Name" brand will be a lower quality item.

If you want to buy one good watch and wear it for 20 years- I think Tourneau is a better starting point than Wo-Mart.

I guess I was (unsuccessfully) trying to get across that they are 'just watches' and we sometimes get too worked up over them, relative to everything else that is actually important in life (I know, I know, life wouldn't be worth living without the latest IWC pilot chrono rep... )

P.S. I know that since I gave Chad a hard time about the datewheel, my pilot chrono is going to arrive with a datewheel so crooked the words are at 45 degrees... sods/murphys law.

Indeed, my favourite PAM sub and my 2nd favourite PAM also! Thanks for the comparison, I think I will be buying one of these in the next month, and previously owned one of the older Arkti so this is a very useful guide.

Do not worry...

I will not be posting anymore in this forum as I stated before.

but as a last comment.....

I am stunned at the insulting posts and pms I have gotten.

Funny how in my last post about the date wheel how I say TWICE, that the watch looks great.

Also I just posted a glowing review for my big bang that has a missing screw!!!!

I know that eddie was very dishonest with me and for me that does not fly even if I get the watch.

Even in all my posts about him in most I say that I will be the first to post a glowing review for him and the watch when it gets here but that I was concerned with honesty and communication.

I never used childish insults or insulted anyone back in the forum.

I was only trying to improve the quailty of communication through our dealers.

As far as nothing ever being good enough, I am shocked I am flamed so hard about the date wheel. As much modding and money goes into making things right you would think in a hobby forum like this that if there are 1500 posts about a cannon pin issue that I would not get personally insulted saying that the date bothers me.

Anyway.....good bye

I can only speak on behalf of myself, but I have no issue with your critisism of Eddie or any dealings regarding watches you have bought from him in the past that have problems. The forums are for open discussion, if they were not they would lose 95% of their value. When you get a watch that you have a problem with and the dealer does not make good, posting an appropriate bad review will help everyone (and hopefully will put pressure on the dealer to change).

The only thing that irritated was the datewheel issue. It's a known problem with the day/date Asian 7750, the original gallery pics showed the problem and some gens have it. I didn't feel personally insulted by your posts and I apologise if you felt personally insulted by my posts, that was not my intention.

Remember, these are just fake watches (although obviously there is money changing hands). Sometimes we lose our perspective!

On a side note, I thought that the sub dial chrono hands were supposed to be lumed, but I could not confirm it in the photos, can anyone confirm or deny that? Thanks in advance.

I can't find the photo now, but I'm sure a saw a lume shot in a gen forum that only had the 3,6,9,12 and the hour/minute hands lumed.

I've said it before. I don't think the 28k 7750 is up to par with the previous 21k version. Given the option I would choose the 21k every time. The 21k is also an easier swap with the swiss versions.

My mileage varies from yours. 2 x 21k 7750s that bit the dust within the first month, one was serviced and then subsequently developed another problem. I currenty have 2 watches with the 28k that are still going strong after 6 months. I think it's a bit of a crapshoot with either variant but my own experiences put me off the 21k version for good.

right....

if pointing out flaws that could be fixed in future watches and striving for more honesty in our dealers and there transactions makes me sound like someone you would never want to deal with then you should not.

You might buy a watch from me and get it exactly as described and a working tracking number the next morning....

shudder......it is not possible...they are just reps and anything goes...right guys...

but seriously.....an honest question?

If a crooked date (not even referring to this watch, because all the others could be just fine) is not a dealbreaker, why are you into fine watches and iwc's for that matter?.....they are about all the great details and appreciation of them?

Crooked dates and the like are really not even on a 20 dollar timex

I am not referring to the iwc pilot, there is no confirmation of a date problem on any other watch......but just a general question to the forum.

@chad my patience with you is at an end. I think you have expectations beyond what most of the watches and dealers on this forum can deliver. We are buying illegal, counterfeit watches, using Asian made 7750 copy movements for a fraction of the retail price.

A slightly crooked datewheel, that could be due to installation, or may be due to misprinting, is a minor flaw considering that some watches (real and replica) can be supplied with defective movements (i.e. either non-functional or not accurately telling the time). If you were so bothered by 100% perfect datewheel alignment why did you even buy this watch??! The pics in Eddies album clearly show a day and date number that are slightly out of alignment, hell, the date font is even wrong and would be an instant and easy spot for an IWC aficionado!

Eddie is selling a 99% accurate watch, that is not made in a giant factory by a huge international company with ISO 9001 style QC. If you want perfection, seek out either the real thing, or a genuine datewheel and a decent watchmaker who can swap it out for you.

The vast majority of us seem to able to put replica watches into context and set our expectations accordingly, you appear to be the exception. I don't think this hobby, and possibly this forum is suited to your needs.

[censored]ing hell Chad remind me to never deal with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am starting to suspect that chad is actually a bot created by EL's competition to troll on his threads...

Well it looks very good but you do not have to settle when it comes to stuff like crooked dates and stuff that is easily fixable.

Remember the orders were delayed for a o-ring being off by .01mm......If you handed your watch to my non watch nerd friends they would say right away......why is the date crooked? If I handed them an H series PAM they would not ask when the crown is not 1mm thicker.. I would have halted orders for the date.

The obvious easy fix mistakes are not acceptable to me but the ones that are unavoidable like mvt issues and case design that might be too expensive for them to make or challenging are acceptable to me.

Of course the date might be just fine on others watches but just wanted to say something about flaws and what I can live with and cannot.

If they can reproduce the case on this big bang(awesome) I am wearing now they can align any date wheel!

The watch itself looks really great though!

Following your logic we would have had PAM autos with perfect date fonts about 2 years ago. Only now they are starting to improve (and are still not perfect)! If you want perfect, go buy a gen for $4K!