Zwiebak

Quick update: The gunked up wheels started to become a serious problem as the raffles crown does not clutch out and the heavy resistance made screwing in the crown practically impossible. Therefore I had the movement serviced yet again by a different watchmaker and now everything is fine. Furthermore I have ordered a jubilee to mix things up, but so far I like the oyster much better with the smooth bezel.

Definitely! The beauty is fully assembled now 🤩

Today I glued the datewheel onto the movement and the dial onto the dial feet. Exciting day to say the least, but everything went according to plan and it fits perfect.

Update: I have almost all the part together that I need. The last missing piece is the gen dial, which I ordered last week. So far everything went wrong that could go wrong but I'm back on track. First off, as mentioned above, the crown turned out to be a 24-600-0, not a 24-603-0. Furthermore it is not genuine, so that's a couple of bucks down the drain. Then raffles dials send me an unbranded crown. Some other things had defects too, so he send me a second parcel with the correct branded crown. I found a 24-603-0 for 165 € online, but as the rafflesdials worked very smooth a didn't look too bad I decided to not make the build more expensive than it already is and stick with the raffles crown. Maybe I'll upgrade in the future.

The watchmaker who serviced the movement seems to have overoiled the ratchet wheels of the ETA 2836-2. Or they were defective from the start, but then he should have replaced them. Either way, the rotor spins a bit when winding the movement in a completely flat position. The watchmaker insists that this is a common ETA problem (which is not entirely false, but you can fix it) and that everything is fine. As this is not a significant problem I will be using the movement as is and have it serviced by a dude I was recommended after a year or so.

Next it turned out that the bracelets I bought did not fit the case for whatever reason and the spring bars didn't catch the holes in the lugs. I removed the rings on the inside of the endlinks, which allowed me to attach the spring bars, but now the end links had nothing holding them in place and they were rattling around loosely. Therefore I resoldered the little rings and used curved spring bars, which is a bit of a hassle but solved the problem.

This is how I want the final product to look like btw: 1998 no holes smooth bezel 36 mm Rolex Datejust 16200 silver dial

Fingers crossed that everything will go according to plan from now on. Next steps include glueing the datewheel to the movement, glueing the dial to the feet, fitting the hands, casing the whole thing and getting it waterproof. 

Here are some pictures of the stuff I had delivered so far and the endlink rings I was talking about: https://imgur.com/a/0vr5E0O

1 minute ago, ceejay said:

You are correct. You don't need one. 

This movement has a plate to secure the hour wheel 👍

Good news, so I can just take the disc off and I‘m good to go. I wonder why my watchmaker claimed this was not safe. Well he is giving a one year warranty on the revision, so maybe he just didn’t want to risk it.

31 minutes ago, ceejay said:

 

No. It's just used for securing the day wheel.

 

What I would suggest is putting a dial washer on after removing the day wheel. This will ensure the day wheel does not ride up on its pinion.

They are simple, curved brass washers like this... http://blog.watchdoctor.biz/2019/11/04/what-is-a-dial-washer/ 

 

There is only one seller who has these on eBay and he is based in your home country. This bit of tinfoil would cost me 20 €... is that really necessary? I’ve found this picture of a 2836-2 without a day disc on a German watch forum and I can’t see what this washer is supposed to hold in place. The hour wheel is held in place by this plate, is it not?

2 minutes ago, ceejay said:

You can remove the day wheel. It doesn't hold any wheels in place. You remove the cir-clip  that retains it (in the centre of the day wheel) lift the day wheel off. Job done.

 

The 2836-2 uses a 'double jumper' for jumping and securing the day/date wheels when they rotate. it's a one piece spring (ETA part number 2784) it has a plate that secures it so will not fly away or foul anything with the day wheel removed.

Thanks for your help! Do I need to put the circlip back in place after removing the disc?

1 hour ago, automatico said:

Look at pictures of an Eta 2836 with the day works removed to see what you do not need...the extra Day parts must be removed.  You may need a different repair guy, many can not/will not perform minor modifications.

Sound like the simplest option is to just leave the stuff where it is, no? If I remove the teeth from the gen datewheel and sand it down a bit, it should not rub too much on the day disc. Perhaps I can give it a good polish and apply some silicon grease to reduce the friction?

1 hour ago, automatico said:

Probably be better to find a genuine 6mm crown that fits the case tube in your case.

That‘s what I will do.

Today I picked up the movement from the revision and my watchmaker advised me not to remove the daywheel from the movement as it supposedly is holding some wheels in place that might come loose. Can anyone confirm that? Should I glue the 3135 datewheel straight on and live with the fact that it will rub against the daywheel?

Should it indeed be safe to remove the daywheel, can someone explain to me how? My watchmaker didn’t want to do it and I‘m afraid of damaging something or having springs fly across the room...

PS: The crown turned out to be a 24-600-0 and therefore doesn‘t fit the tube. Thus I will stick with the stock rafflesdials crown for now. 

Furthermore here you have a Rolex cross reference list so you can tell exactly which parts are needed for a specific case reference!

Here is the crown. As I said it is pretty scuffed up and dirty, but it turns out to have the correct thread for the raffles tube.

1. Do you think it is indeed a gen 24-630-0 crown?

2. Do you have any tips on what to clean / polish the crown with?

The movement arrived today 😃

@automatico @watcher I just checked rafflesdials' website. The 6 mm crowns he is selling separately come with a 5.3 mm tube (2.4 mm inner / 4.0 mm outer thread width according to specs). Therefore I assume that this will also hold true for the case sets he has on offer. I will keep you updated on that.

Meanwhile I received an offer I could not refuse for a gen crown (very scuffed up though). Unfortunately the seller could not tell me which tube it was meant for, so fingers crossed it fits.

@alligoat Well I will see how it looks in person once it arrives, but judging from the pictures the coronet on it is way too small. I'm building the watch for myself, not to impress anyone, and if the crown is wrong it will be annoying me all the time.

Just thought I would share this link with you, that I found very helpful. Among other things it contains a table with crown, washer and tube reference numbers.

@watcher According to automatico's "Crown info" thread it could either be a 24-600-x crown on a 24-60xx tube or a 24-603-x crown on a 24-53xx tube. Furthermore it is also possible that the case I ordered has a completely different tube spec than any Rolex.

@watcher Thank you, this is good news. I will have to wait for the case to arrive then and measure the tube before I order anything, because he couldn't tell me if it was 6.0 or 5.3 mm.

@automatico The guy behind rafflesdials told me, that a genuine 3135 crown would not fit onto the stem of an ETA 2836-2. Can you confirm this?

@automatico Thank you so much, that was really informative and insightful! Also thanks for pointing out that crown sticky, I see that this is a science in itself. Good to know that before purchasing anything.

A guy on a different forum told me that even new ETA movements require fresh oil and some regulation especially if they have been stored for a while, so I guess I will go for the bargain on Ebay. The Asian ETA 2836 movements in my replicas keep excellent time (far beyond 15 s/d) so I kinda have high expectations, but we'll see.

I did some research on Datejust history and it turns out that the dial I was looking at was a tritium lumed dial from the early 90s, whereas the rafflesdials case is a post 1994 model (no drilled lug holes) and the bracelet is stamped with 2001 codes (DE7 / 455 B). So I looked some more and found a beautifully aged tropical dial from 1998 and a pristine silver dial from 1999, both 27,8 mm in diameter and with superluminova to match the rafflesdials hands. I contacted rafflesdials and according to them a 27,8 mm gen dial should fit, but I'll measure it when the stuff arrives.

I've found a nicely aged 16200 datewheel from 1990. Not exactly true to the whole 2001 thing, but I like the font more than on the later datewheels. Furthermore I will follow your advice and order an inexpensive spare dial for fitting as well. Will normal ETA hands work or do I need ones with a longer post?

The more I think about it, the more it seems to make sense to glue the dial to the dial spacer, because then you can still rotate it to find the perfect fit, right? Regarding adhesives: I've read a lot about how adhesives can get soft and work their way into the movement when the watch heats up. Can you comment on that and perhaps recommend a tape that you have had good experiences with?

And more thing that makes me worry: The gen dials that I had in mind are 27,8 mm in diameter according to the seller, whereas the raffle dials case is fit for 28,0 mm dials as sold by them. Is my concern that it might be too small for the case justified? That would be a couple of hundred quid down the drain so I'd like to be sure in advance.

Sorry for crashing this thread.

p.s. Why do you think it might be necessary to remove the teeth from the gen datewheel? Shouln't there be enough clearance after removing the day wheel on the inside?

@automatico First of all, thank you very much for your answer! I will go with an ETA 2836-2 then.

I've found a Swiss ETA 2836-2 on Ebay for 98€, however it says it has been in storage for 10 years and would require a cleaning. My watchmaker offered me to clean and regulate it for 100€. Would that be a good deal, or would it make more sense to buy a new (pre-sealed) one on CousinsUK for 250€ and mount it without cleaning or regulating it?

A case tube is where the crown screws into right? I didn't even know those were removable... do you think a gen crown might not fit on the raffles dials case tube, or is it only about the quality?

Do you mean that the dial does not have to be glued at all, if the spacer and case clamps are closely fitting or do you mean that the glued feet are more likely not to break in that case?

Thanks again and have a great day

Hey I am planning on building a similar Franken, however I am still unsure whether to use a raffles 2824 or 2836 case as base. I've read the crown position is too low on the 2836. Is that true? On their website the crown position looks to be the same.

Are there other advantages or disadvantages to each movement, e. g. when fitting a DWO or a gen DW? Do I have to worry about alignment of the date window with either of the cases, movements or datewheels?

Currently I am considering ordering the following things:

- rafflesdials DJ36 smooth bezel case

- rafflesdials silver lumed DJ36 handset

- rafflesdials vintage hollow end link 20mm jubilee for DJ36

- Swiss ETA

- gen blue sunburst DJ36 dial with lumed stick indices glued on .74mm dial feet from CousinsUK (item nr. D38748)

- gen 3135 DW, rafflesdials ETA DWO or a BP v2 DW whatever works best?

- gen 6mm crown

For any advice I should be very thankful.

p.s. I am entirely new to this, I don't even have any tools