t Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Hi RWG people today got a sample of the new "SL T48 SS" crown - the new crown is with 0.5mm depth (old one is 0.8mm depth). So it should fit tighter on the lever but will not fit on the V-CG here pictures with the old "T48 SS" crown side by side i am not an expert but from first view i would say that the crown is to much polished and the theets are to beveled? What you guys think? Should we produce the crowns with lower polishing or may complete brushed? I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z3k0 Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Looks good t, in my opinion bevel should be little reduced, and teeth should be a bit "sharper". About brushed or polished I'm not sure, maybe some gen crown owners could chime in. Does this mean that all new crowns will be with 0,5 depth ? I surely hope not ... regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcook Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 I aggree on the bevel and the sharpnes of the teeth. Should be brushed, imo, to look genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Holy crap Tourby!! Amazing. Refinish per your T-48's and you will have extremely genish crowns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andei3000 Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Great news so far, but I would suggest to reduce the bevel to a minimum and having a brushed finish on the crown. everything else seems fine! thanks tourby for making another fine piece in rep history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) Hi T, as others have mentioned...great effort but requires a little improvement. The teeth are too beveled and the over-polishing the teeth only makes them look even more beveled and the top ot the teeth surface sloping under an angle, instead being straight. Remember the issue with your original T-48 crowns and over-polishing of the teeth? Not sure why is your maker persisting on this, but hey he must have his reasons. For me the other big 'issue' would be the fact the dish is now 0.3mm thicker meaning this won't be just a straight drop-in job for our existing Pams. As it stands now, we will have to either modify the CG lever tip, or try making the crown sitting closer to the case, or combination of both. Since these are still pre-prod prototypes, I'm sure you could raise these concerns with your maker Oh, and lastly...the dish should be left with machined circular finish not polished, just like your T-48/60 crowns came as. Keep up the good work mate, and big thumbs up! b Edited May 21, 2010 by babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serotonin Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 hi t great and nice sample what you show us:) i will see your end product in many weeks:) and i must say it looks good for me Greetz andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 I can make the crowns like you guys want it... i can make it in brushed... but i heard that the genuine crown is also a little bit polished? Isn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Tourby Many of us prefer the .8mm dish depth because they will fit not only the few V Cg's left but the Seadbo cg's, the new Toro Bravo CG's, the wholesaleoutlet CG's and most importantly for those of us with the means, Genuine CG's. I would hope you will be able to make these with the correct OEM dpeth as the originals or at least have them as an option. I for one would never put a crappy cartel CG over one of these beautiful crowns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlydog Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 +1 tanya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Too much bevel makes the crown look 'rounder' so don't overdo it. That being said I disagree on 2 points - I don't think the teeth need to be sharper for one and I think the dish (counterbore) should not be concentrically brushed like the old crown. I think the polished look is better but not mirror shine polish, if I had to guesstimate I would say it's 2500-3000 grit finish. Just try look up some gen pictures, you can see the lever stub reflection in the dish if you find the right angle. I'll try to take a picture of my gen crown with closeup macro for you to study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Too much bevel makes the crown look 'rounder' so don't overdo it. That being said I disagree on 2 points - I don't think the teeth need to be sharper for one and I think the dish (counterbore) should not be concentrically brushed like the old crown. I think the polished look is better but not mirror shine polish, if I had to guesstimate I would say it's 2500-3000 grit finish. Just try look up some gen pictures, you can see the lever stub reflection in the dish if you find the right angle. I'll try to take a picture of my gen crown with closeup macro for you to study. Mate, the reason I mentioned non-polished finish on the teeth was that his maker would introduce an unnecessary and unnatural slope on the teeth towards the outside of the crown by over zealously polishing the tips of the teeth. So best to leave the S/S crowns in the same finish as T-48 Ti and PVD crowns that come with 'perfect' teeth finish. At least that's what I believe and judging by off line conversations I had with members here in the past - many others would agree. On the dish polish/brushed topic. Well this is a slightly tricky one. I own 2 genuine crowns which both come with slight concentric brushed finish on the inside of the dish, resulting in more of a 'sunburst' finish than brushed, but the lightly brushed finish is certainly there. If T made his dishes polished (which isn't correct if you compare them to gen crown finish) it would be much harder for us to restore that lightly brushed sunburst finish. Dremel tool comes to mind, but not many here have it and aren't skilled in doing so. On the other hand if the crowns were finished in brushed finish like his T-48, we could easily get to that brushed/polished finish the gen crowns come with just by few concentric swipes with Cape cod or even dremel polishing tip. Open for further comments and suggestions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 sorry but my camera is an old canon sd300 and it's pretty late now, no natural light. Yup, that's a well known gen auto A-series. It's also known as "Turkish" crown by many of us that either sourced it via eBay directly or thru Watchmeister in the past. These differ from the "standard" Vendome crowns in many ways, one of them being a sunburst finish on mine to almost completely polished finish of the dish on yours. IMO, wouldn't use this one as a reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Ok, then, to avoid further confusion I'll take those out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Ok... we make the crowns complete brushed... so the theets would look sharpener like o the Titanium and PVD crown dish depth will stay 0.5mm.... sorry guys but the manufacturer told me that the dish depth of 0.8mm isn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 (edited) T, having the crown made with 0.5mm dish depth will leave many peeps unhappy, I'm afraid. The 0.8 is a standard dish depth, as per gen specs. Cartel crowns and CGs (the good old ones anyway) are made in standard measures, i.e. rep crown and the CG could interchange with genuine bits. The CGs that come on newer Pam reps are oversized and will most likely fit 0.5mm, just like most of them fit older Palpatine crowns with thick dish. As I mentioned before in this thread, having a dish at 0.5 depth will most likely necessitate modification of the CG lever, and I for one am unwilling to modify my Genuine and Jimmy Fu's CG levers to fit the new crown, sorry Please don't take this the wrong way, these are just some of my thoughts...just thinking out loud that's all. I'm sure your maker could do something to shorten the spring for 0.3mm to accommodate the standard 0.8 dish depth, could he not? Gen crowns are made like that, so I'm hoping he could find a way to replicate the similar design. Fingers crossed... Edited May 22, 2010 by babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 (edited) @ babola the problem is the tube... the genuine watch case has a tube with bigger hole inside (2.5-3mm?) but the rep watch case has a tube with 2.0-2.2 mm hole only... a genuine crown wouldn´t fit in the rep tube and a T48 crown with thick spring loaded mechanism would´t also fit in the rep watch case... so i need to produce a crown with thinner spring mechanism and this is possible inside of the crown only... we would have 2 options 1) We produce a crown with 0.8mm dish depth and a thicker spring mechnism like the genuine... and would also need to produce a new tube to fit the rep case and the thicker spring mechanism. + this would be very close to the genuine and i would make all PAM experts happy... - only 5% of all RWG members could use this crown... all other 95% couldn´t install this crown + tube without a help of an watchmaker - this version would be the most expensive way... we would have the costs for crown + new tube + watchmaker costs 2) We produce a crown with a thinner spring mechanism which is inside of the crown and a dish depth of 0.5mm + this would be simplest way and 100% of all RWG members could install the new crown by itself without a help of an watchmaker + this would be the less expensive because we have no costs for a new tube - this is not close to the genuine and not the best way for the PAM experts please don´t misunderstand me guys... i need to satisfy ALL members... so is 2) the best way for all and i will go on with 2) but for the PAM experts will offer you a SPECIAL T CROWN... with thicker spring mechanism + new tube + 0.8mm dish depth... i need your instructions and planing this one for end of the year. i hope now all people will be happy Edited May 22, 2010 by t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Thanks T, that's probably for the best. I sort of suspected the thinner crown neck and narrower tube hole on rep cases would have something to do with it If you need any assistance with measures etc for those crowns with thicker neck and custom crown tube you're planning to make in the future, just drop us a note mate, many of us here would be more than willing and happy to assist cheers! b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 As one persons opinion.... T, I would try to go for getting as close to genuine as possible. I would suspect that the people who are willing to spend the money to upgrade their crown to a better quality one - are those of us who are trying to get as close to genuine as possible. I for one, will only be interested in the proper depth crowns - to go with all of the aftermarket CG's. The whole modding experience of Crown and CG go together. And, if that means that we need to also replace the crown tube - we are more likely than not to be willing to ask a modder to do that as well. I certainly am. One thing that does not seem to have been pointed out yet - is that I have noticed on the 3 T-48 crowns that I have, as well as in these pictures, the crowns are not "flat" across the ridges as you go from inside to outside, where as the genuine crowns are. See the following picture. It is very slight - but I thought that I would point it out. Not a show stopper - but of your production guys can take it into account - why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 may this comes from the polishing on the machine but the new crowns will not be polished any more... so this problem should be solved however, thank you for your opinion - good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 One thing that does not seem to have been pointed out yet - is that I have noticed on the 3 T-48 crowns that I have, as well as in these pictures, the crowns are not "flat" across the ridges as you go from inside to outside, where as the genuine crowns are. See the following picture. It is very slight - but I thought that I would point it out. Not a show stopper - but of your production guys can take it into account - why not. We did mention the sloping issue, in this very thread actually, but it obviously didn't come across well The sloping and over polishing the teeth (which is the main reason for slope and conical look of the crown) was my biggest issue with T-48 S/S crowns. On the other hand PVD and Ti were just perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncyte Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) I didn't read through all the posts but here's my 2 cents.... The current non-spring loaded crowns were pretty good....even the bevel...the only difference I found was the T48 was a bit thicker and the teeth were too deep or tall...making them look like they're too bevelled as it tapers. Here are pic comparisons between them. Gen crowns are polished....I would not have them brushed. Sorry for the blurry shots. I took the pics with T48 on the left and gen on the right. T48 manual with gen manual T48 Auto with gen auto Crowns together including a palp crown Edited May 23, 2010 by oncyte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted May 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 oncyte good point i think we should rethink if we make the crowns complete brushed... if the genuine is polished. May we make it polished but lesser... a complete brushed crown would have the sharpener theets but if i check the picture of the genuine crown from "oncyte" would spot that the theets are also a little bit beveled? more pictures of genuine crowns to comparsion would be welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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