PAM23A & PAM63C from DSN

[w0lf]

23A

63C

63C dial print is not great, low crossbar A's make a comeback. The handstack is also not good aside from the gmt hand, it appears it's the only hand he redesigned as the hour and minute hand are not shaped properly and are shiny lacquer finished. It also has A/R for some reason which it's not supposed to have.

23A dial print looks much better and the handstack is also better than the 63C. However there are no 'cream' surrounds around numbers typical of that period T dials. Strange that he put them on 24A dial but not on 23A dial...

Usual problems with the rest of the watches, case, crown, datewheel, crownguard are subpar. Since the casebacks are going to be $20 - good budget alternative to Jakob's @1/6th the price.

Discuss.

[w0lf]

OK, first impressions added.

[btocamelo]

Also:

1. the fish is too fat on the caseback

2. the two dots on the caseback are not equally spaced to the texted

3. WOULD IT KILL DSN....to make a longer Case Tube...so the Crown stands off the case by 1mm?

[w0lf]

Well, it wouldn't kill him to make the whole case set better but we all know that's not happening. The caseback is well worth the $20 that he's going to charge for it though. We can call it the "fat fish" caseback and look at that serial, capital thinking.

[btocamelo]

Well, it wouldn't kill him to make the whole case set better but we all know that's not happening. The caseback is well worth the $20 that he's going to charge for it though. We can call it the "fat fish" caseback and look at that serial, capital thinking.

LOL....jeeeeezz....gotta love the S/N on the '63'

the man definitely has hit a "quality hump"........if he would only improve his quality similar to what Little Hero puts out with movements, dials and CG....and at a lower price than LH....that would be something.......we all know he has the machinery to do it.

[Eton]

Ah, another 63 thread, excellent!

If someone wants a 23 or 63, at least there's an option, right?

For the 63, nothing compares to an EL, of course...but one thing EL didn't have was the correct sized cyclops, 5.5mm not 6mm. A few people, including myself have purchased DSN's 27/28 6mm crystal with no AR, but the damn cyclops isn't centered over the datewheel perfectly, so if you have OCD, gonna drive you nuts...so I'm tempted to buy this crystal to try it (strip the AR if alignment & mag is correct)

[Eton]

LOL....jeeeeezz....gotta love the S/N on the '63'

the man definitely has hit a "quality hump"........if he would only improve his quality similar to what Little Hero puts out with movements, dials and CG....and at a lower price than LH....that would be something.......we all know he has the machinery to do it.

I just noticed the S/N...oh boy!

Good point on the "QH" though!

[w0lf]

Yeah, options are good to have but please tell me what was the point of re-issue of 63 if you're only changing the serial number on the caseback and the GMT hand. The rest of the flaws in the dial, hands and caseset were copied over and magnified. Well, I guess I see the point - it's a discontinued watch, but a little effort please.

[Eton]

Yeah, options are good to have but please tell me what was the point of re-issue of 63 if you're only changing the serial number on the caseback and the GMT hand. The rest of the flaws in the dial, hands and caseset were copied over and magnified. Well, I guess I see the point - it's a discontinued watch, but a little effort please.

Hey, I agree with ya, people are willing to pay for great reps...so why not make it great? He probably got tired of people asking him "how much for the 63???"

[w0lf]

At this point, I would settle for "good".

Cartel daylights are great, the finishing and machining of the case set are at an all time best. But I'll take EL/River/Honpo "good" when it comes to GMTs. The biggest draw for me was that they had good cases & ETA2893's while the rest of the flaws were correctable.

[babola]

I heard there's great 187 and 224 coming out by Cartel...better start saving, eh!?

LOL!

[z3k0]

Well, this is really quite disappointing, ton of flaws AND modified 2836 ... well, patience is a virtue, one day someone will make it right

I heard there's great 187 and 224 coming out by Cartel...better start saving, eh!?

LOL!

Yeah I'm hoping for 224 since first seeing new daylights ... just that they get dial color right - meaning NOT like cartel 229 - and I'll be all over it

regards

[wan]

These watches the 23A, and 63 are going to come with an eta 2836 movement only...........No eta 2893-2.............damn, but the watches will be $360 which i wish it had a 2893-2 for that price? Also, where is the pam29A? It seems to make sence to have that as well. W

[Watchmeister]

I am just not impressed. Nowhere near his last couple of offerings. I was truly impressed with the Submersibles.

[StormTooper4]

Here are 2 watches that you cant get elsewhere , ok they are not perfect by any means but they are very good value replicas of watches that YOU CANT GET anywhere else.

This looks sweet

The CG looks good to me.

Thank you to Mr Davidsen for making the effort to bring some new GMTs to the table , its really really sad that there is such a lack of gratitude here. Seriously this place really sucks sometimes, they are a couple of hundred dollar replicas thats it, if you dont like dont buy easy as .

[Snrubb]

The 023 looks doable, but the 063 looks pretty off though....

I guess my 063 with the 2893-2 didn't take a value hit today.

[Eton]

He's bringing out "new" pieces, which is a great thing, so we can't fault him for trying. 99% of Pams need modifying, so should we think these would be any different? Even an EL needs tweaking...but that's what makes this hobby fun, if you love a watch you'll take the time to add improvements.

[w0lf]

Agreed on all points, except that when you have a bad case you can't really do much.

you can strip the A/R on 63 or ask DSN to put a 23 crystal on it instead

you can use Luminova relumed 23A handstack on 63 instead of the shiny one he decided to include with it

you can replace the datewheel with Leo, Lello or Finepics (and hopefully Taka soon)

you can replace the crown with anything really, T48, SLT48, Palp, Sead's new auto crown

you can replace the crownguard with an older cartel one

you can get a relume on 23A dial to fix the Tang lume and add cream surrounds around ideces

But what are you going to do with a case that has short stubby lugs that makes for an off fit of straps and a rehaut that's 2 miles deep?

[Eton]

Yup...almost everything is tweakable, but oh the case!

[kbiz]

Agreed on all points, except that when you have a bad case you can't really do much.

you can strip the A/R on 63 or ask DSN to put a 23 crystal on it instead

you can use Luminova relumed 23A handstack on 63 instead of the shiny one he decided to include with it

you can replace the datewheel with Leo, Lello or Finepics (and hopefully Taka soon)

you can replace the crown with anything really, T48, SLT48, Palp, Sead's new auto crown

you can replace the crownguard with an older cartel one

you can get a relume on 23A dial to fix the Tang lume and add cream surrounds around ideces

But what are you going to do with a case that has short stubby lugs that makes for an off fit of straps and a rehaut that's 2 miles deep?

Right on the money... only thing to do with the 23a is buy just the dial... source some old EL hands and send hands and dial to Vac to fix the lume... now you have a decent base to build a watch... maybe if you're impatient go with DSN's crystal.

[kbiz]

Ah, another 63 thread, excellent!

If someone wants a 23 or 63, at least there's an option, right?

For the 63, nothing compares to an EL, of course...but one thing EL didn't have was the correct sized cyclops, 5.5mm not 6mm. A few people, including myself have purchased DSN's 27/28 6mm crystal with no AR, but the damn cyclops isn't centered over the datewheel perfectly, so if you have OCD, gonna drive you nuts...so I'm tempted to buy this crystal to try it (strip the AR if alignment & mag is correct)

all pams with the 28xx movement have the 6mm cyclops... 023/027/028/029/063... also the date wheels from all of these models are interchangeable except in DW thickness... date window alignment is also the same throughout... the reason DSN's cyclops is misaligned has nothing to do with the movement or the dial but more to do with the accuracy of his cnc grinder that bores the socket in the sapphire...

[babola]

...you can...

...you can part with $800+ and still end up unhappy with the result. Or simply go and buy another Pam model, or two for that money.

;-)

[w0lf]

I made an additional observation but I need to make sure I'm not seeing things. It could just be Heisenberg uncertainty principle at work here...

After looking at the new offerings once more I'm now wondering if DSN is using a brand new crystal yet again. Since the ETA28xx date window placement is the same across the range of movements I'm surprised why David didn't just use the same crystal he used on his PR models 27,28 & 57 on the new 23 & 63? Clearly the mag of the cyclops didn't change but the crystal looks different. The cyclops looks to be slightly larger than 6mm and not centered unlike the dead-on appearance of his older crystal on PR models. Any insights?

[Eton]

I know what you mean about the crystal...aside from the AR, it's difficult to really compare the new 23/63 to a 27/28...especially since his pictures are never exactly the same. I've sent him a message regarding the crystal, so we'll see...but it does look different!

[w0lf]

Eton,

If this turns out to be the case then it's another example of a good thing going bad over time. It might mean that the old crystal is no longer available and I think it would make a perfect combo with a bold datewheel like the Taka's upcoming 2892 datewheel to be used in all of the 6mm cyclops builds (23,27,28,29,57,63).