ajoesmith Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Looking for a PAM cyclops for an upgrade. Does anyone have one that was specially made a while back?? Please let me know Thanks Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Looking for a PAM cyclops for an upgrade. Does anyone have one that was specially made a while back?? Please let me know Thanks Joe I can probably steer you in the right direction, please shoot me a PM to remind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck88 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 There are still a few floating around out there - my personal opinion is that while it was closer to the correct diameter, the mag was terrible - would distort the date in a big way ... also had mad reflection, so if there were any lights above you it is almost impossible to read. Just my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 @ajoesmith: by chance is it for your 027, joe? @Canuck88: yes, I also saw that on some models periferal distortion became a problem. That is due to the extreme desing of those lenses (designed to get the highest possible magnification) coupled with the different rehauts of our reps. Even small increases in the distance between dial and crystal result in a large increase in magnification, that can possibly result in unacceptable periferal distortion. Gens don't have this problem as each cyclops is designed for that single specific model, and perhaps they also use aspheric lenses to minimize spherical aberration (aspheric lenses would cost at least 4x, though). You may want to try your cyclops on other models with a shorter rehaut, or try removing the teflon ring on which the cystal sits and glue the crystal on the bezel directly (that would shorten the distance between the cyclops and the dial). As you pointed out, other problems about the readability of the date come from refelections. And, I might also add, from the date becoming darker (less bright). Reflections actually came out as an unexpected issue. Anyone tried AR coating the crystal with the cyclops mounted? Reflections overcome the date font also because the date font brightness decreases with the square of date magnification. At 1.8x magnification, those same light rays that comes from that given date window area become scattered on a 3.24 wider area, so that brightness becomes about 1/3 than original. That should benefit from the new datewheels that we all are waiting for from Finepics (and I also heard that Archibald was planning something about it)... Now I can hear you think "Well, I got a bunch of explainations, but very few solutions". True. All what I can say now is that, on the experience from those cyclopses, I am actually working on a project for inexpensive cyclopses that can work on all models. Be warned: no sapphire, no extreme mag this time. But no distortion and no reflections-vs-brightness issues, too. Sort of a middlepoint between old Lello's cyclopses (1.1x) and the new sapphire super-mag cyclopses we talked about (1.8x). I hope to be able offer them @ as low as about 12-13 USD (+ s/h), and with immediate shipping (ready product, no wait for manufacturing). But before releasing them I want to have them tested on ALL my PAMs. After all, there's nothing like real tests. And I also want to post pictures so that anyone can make his own judgement before purchasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck88 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 The new project sounds great! And I wasn't being critical of the previous cyclopses, just giving my experience with them so he can make an informed choice. Looking forward to hearing more about the new ones! (Maybe you should offer them to the rep makers so they can install them at the factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 oh, that would be good. I was trying on gen's recently and noticed at least the rolex's all had the reflection issues. I don't think its an ar thing i think its a domed piece of glass thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Ohhh ssurfer... Interesting on the cyclops project... Can't wait to see those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 @ajoesmith: by chance is it for your 027, joe? @Canuck88: yes, I also saw that on some models periferal distortion became a problem. That is due to the extreme desing of those lenses (designed to get the highest possible magnification) coupled with the different rehauts of our reps. Even small increases in the distance between dial and crystal result in a large increase in magnification, that can possibly result in unacceptable periferal distortion. Gens don't have this problem as each cyclops is designed for that single specific model, and perhaps they also use aspheric lenses to minimize spherical aberration (aspheric lenses would cost at least 4x, though). You may want to try your cyclops on other models with a shorter rehaut, or try removing the teflon ring on which the cystal sits and glue the crystal on the bezel directly (that would shorten the distance between the cyclops and the dial). As you pointed out, other problems about the readability of the date come from refelections. And, I might also add, from the date becoming darker (less bright). Reflections actually came out as an unexpected issue. Anyone tried AR coating the crystal with the cyclops mounted? Reflections overcome the date font also because the date font brightness decreases with the square of date magnification. At 1.8x magnification, those same light rays that comes from that given date window area become scattered on a 3.24 wider area, so that brightness becomes about 1/3 than original. That should benefit from the new datewheels that we all are waiting for from Finepics (and I also heard that Archibald was planning something about it)... Now I can hear you think "Well, I got a bunch of explainations, but very few solutions". True. All what I can say now is that, on the experience from those cyclopses, I am actually working on a project for inexpensive cyclopses that can work on all models. Be warned: no sapphire, no extreme mag this time. But no distortion and no reflections-vs-brightness issues, too. Sort of a middlepoint between old Lello's cyclopses (1.1x) and the new sapphire super-mag cyclopses we talked about (1.8x). I hope to be able offer them @ as low as about 12-13 USD (+ s/h), and with immediate shipping (ready product, no wait for manufacturing). But before releasing them I want to have them tested on ALL my PAMs. After all, there's nothing like real tests. And I also want to post pictures so that anyone can make his own judgement before purchasing. I'm in on the new ones, definitely! sssurfer has exactly stated the optics behind the problem. my experience is as follows-- PAM 051: perfect in every way. perfect mag, excellent clarity, probably due to the black date on white background. This one will be AR coated as well. I'll update when this happens. PAM 222: Even with the extra cyclops @ the dial removed there is too much distortion--probnably due to the extra distance from the date to the lens. Still looks better than out of the box. @ Canuk: The mag is the mag is the mag--just the laws of physics: the mag on the new cyclopses is between 1.67 and 1.83. It is possible the rehuat was unusually shallow on your particular piece, however, but the mag can't change lens to lens. Finally, a general message...and this is very important: My watchsmith refuses to put these on because he says that too much glue or an uneven application can casue severe distortion and reflection problems. Before anyone chucks their lenses...I would highly reccomend being brutally honest with yourself about the quality of the installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 When I cemented mine I used a special adhesive that is optically matched for sapphire made by a company called Norland Optical. The adhesive is NO 61. I used a tiny drop the size of less than a pinhead which creates a layer of glue that is microns thick. The distortion is more to do with the difficulety of precisely aligning the cyclops - a fraction of a mm out and it will distort. I have my 063 crystal away being coated at the moment so I hope this will remove a lot of the reflections - we will see. Marco - a word of warning - yoiu cannot AR coat the crystal if the cyclops is not sapphire. The AR recipe for sapphire will leave newton rings on the cyclops if that is mineral glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 My watchsmith refuses to put these on because he says that too much glue or an uneven application can casue severe distortion and reflection problems. That is important info, archibald, thanks! You make me wonder if I can do better than my watchsmith (which definitely is not The Zigmeister) at glueing the piece... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Marco - a word of warning - yoiu cannot AR coat the crystal if the cyclops is not sapphire. The AR recipe for sapphire will leave newton rings on the cyclops if that is mineral glass. Silly question: Aren't you AR coating the inside of the crystal and not the side the cyclops is attached ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Marco - a word of warning - yoiu cannot AR coat the crystal if the cyclops is not sapphire. The AR recipe for sapphire will leave newton rings on the cyclops if that is mineral glass. Thanks, Mark. Yes, the new cyclopses are BK7. I might have them AR coated, but unsure. Do you see problems on placing an AR uncoated glass cyclops on an already AR coated sapphire crystal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Silly question: Aren't you AR coating the inside of the crystal and not the side the cyclops is attached ? on PAMs, cyclops is attached to the inside of the crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 When I cemented mine I used a special adhesive that is optically matched for sapphire made by a company called Norland Optical. The adhesive is NO 61. What do you use for a UV light source to cure the glue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 on PAMs, cyclops is attached to the inside of the crystal Ahhhh.... I guess I'll learn that when I get my first PAM with a date! So, this is somewhat of an issue then, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 To cure them I use a low spectrum UV bank note checker. The adhesive when cured actually integrates with the sapphire so the cyclops can never be removed!! The cyclops on PAM's are on the inside so are coated with the crystal. Marco I'm not sure if the adhesive will work on an AR coat - I would need to ask Norland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 It is possible that I have access to a gen with a date/cyclops - if so I could maybe unlock the secret. I need to speak to the owner very nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Marco- Sounds good. Can't wait to see them. And with a a little bit of luck there will be a solution to the other half of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Marco I'm not sure if the adhesive will work on an AR coat - I would need to ask Norland. That would be nice, Mark, if you find the time to do it. If negative, I suppose that non-specific-for-sapphire adhesives can be used. My watchsmith used a Seiko non-UV adhesive to glue the cyclopses on AR coated crystals, and it worked. It is possible that I have access to a gen with a date/cyclops - if so I could maybe unlock the secret. I need to speak to the owner very nicely. That would be nice too, Mark. I hope the owner is a lady. Else, I humbly suggest that you ask him while you have your hands on his teeth. That situation makes for one of the two situations when a man cannot refuse anything to another man. (The other one being prosthatic examination ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I'm wondering, is it possible to get 3 coatings ad would this help? Firstly, the sapphire crystal is AR coated on the inside. Then, the cyclops is coated separately, inside and outside (2 layers - like getting the inside and the outside surface of a sapphire crystal coated). Now, attach this to the sapphire crystal (problem being the AR coat on both objects, but there could be a solution). Now you have 3 AR coatings in the way to the date. Would this work? Or would these coatings cause destructive interference in viewing the (hopefully new finepics) datewheel ? Or have I just lost the plot? I guess I never had it to begin with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Think you have lost the plot totally!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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