tode1640 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I am after some advice. Can anyone suggest a reasonably accurate PAM that has a functional power reserve, and doesn't cost the earth? I have an A21J PAM090 - which I like a lot, but it has one very major flaw in that the date is set by a button at the 8pm position (in the gen the date is set by the crown). There are plenty of nice, much more accurate, reps with a faux power reserve - but for me these are a non-starter, that defeats the point of having a power reserve! Trusty Time has a ETA 2892-2 based PAM027/028, which look very nice - but nearly $600 is a lot to pay for a rep. However, I haven't been able to find any power reserve Pams for any less than this that don't have that horrible button. Are there really no such things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Most PR watches use the A21j movement since there is an existing A21j PR movement. Watches "good enough" to warrant the use of a Swiss ETA will have faux PR since the commonly used ETA movements do not have this functionality. A21j movements, for reference, cost about $20 *retail* ... So imagine how little they cost a factory when purchased in bulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Most PR watches use the A21j movement since there is an existing A21j PR movement. So why the button for setting the date? Rolex A21js set the date with the crown, why can't PAMs? Watches "good enough" to warrant the use of a Swiss ETA will have faux PR since the commonly used ETA movements do not have this functionality. So what about the ETA 2892-2 reps? These have a functional PR and, I think, set the date with the crown - which is what I am after. I presume then from what you say that these are an uncommon ETA movement. Is the movement itself expensive enough to justify the cost of these watches (getting on towards $600)? Edited May 31, 2012 by tode1640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi5herman Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Cost of eta 2892-2 should be less than $200, but that for PR mdule (Soprod 9040) is unknown as it is generally not available in the market. So we cannot say the $600 price is high or low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Firstly good on you for not following the "its gotta to be 110% like the Gen" brigade and choosing a PR version . (sorry if that sounds patronising) Secondly I dont think the cartel have the 27/28 anymore , DSN does but it 600-800 An Old rwgmember ssssilversurfer actually did a swap but his write up post is lost in the upgrades and domain changes So you have the choice working PR and a Button for the date or the Non working PR and no date Button Seriously Dude , get pass the Power Reserve working issue , these new ones look awesome. These are seriously underrated and un-represented IMHO I aint seen anyone with one on here so they will soon stop making them and will be rarer than hens teeth and highly dersirable Mark my words I've always fancied a 123 myself Has the button improved , I think its at 1 on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Buy DVN's PAM 027A he has listed for sale. http://www.rwg.cc/topic/144317-fsot-modded-dsn-027a-eta-2892-soprod/ Most accurate you are going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 +1 on DSN. Accuracy of that level cost money. No way around it. Stick with what you've got or start saving your money. Only option I'm afraid. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Firstly good on you for not following the "its gotta to be 110% like the Gen" brigade and choosing a PR version . (sorry if that sounds patronising) I'm not particularly hung up on accuracy - I am just after a nice watch. I don't wear reps to pass them off as gens, I wear them because they are design icons and objects of beauty. My problem with the date button isn't that it is a tell that is obvious from yards away, it is the fact that it is ugly and it really spoils the elegant lines of the case. I wouldn't mind so much if it was positioned a bit lower - but mine, at least, is very high - and to me that makes the whole watch look lopsided. Secondly I dont think the cartel have the 27/28 anymore , DSN does but it 600-800 Pity. I wonder where the DSN watches are made - they do look nice. Trusty Time lists an 028 for $578 - which is the cheapest I have seen, and I really object to spending that much on a rep. I live in Asia and have a few backstreet contacts - I will ask around, but I doubt that they will be much cheaper (even if they can get them). Seriously Dude , get pass the Power Reserve working issue , these new ones look awesome. These are seriously underrated and un-represented IMHO I agree, the do look pretty good, but the faux power reserve is a deal breaker for me. This goes to the heart of the reason that I wear watches. In this day and age no one needs to wear a watch to tell the time. Every phone can tell the time more accurately than most watches, and if you really want a utilitarian watch then a $20 Casio will do the job better than a ten Rolex. The reason that I wear watches is that they are at one and the same time beautiful jewellery, and working machines. I find this an endlessly fascinating combination, but the key aspect of the working machines bit is that they work. I have never been able to abide any non-functioning dial, and a faux power reserve would bug me far, far more than that ugly button. I guess that for the time being, I will stick to my A21J. It is a pity because I would quite like a better movement, and I would love to get rid of that button - but such is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Tode I hear you buddy, I used to think the same on the PR front, there are 2 versions of the IWC BP one with and one without working PR the non working one has a non recessed DW and was the choice I made and the non working PR has never bothered me like I thought it would. The new 090 has way superior date mag and DW font and the case and CG are a massive step up from your version & its has no button. I think these improvements would over shadow the PR gauge. Trusty hasnt sold those versions for at least 4 yrs and they are known as the EL's Eddie Lees as he was the dealer that had most of them, I paid (somewhat crazily) almost 3 times that amount for one a few years back. Though mine has been tritium relumed by Florentine virgins & PVD 'd but original elves from MIlan so its uber special DSN has some good choices the 27 and his 57 But I still reckon the 7750's would take some beating at under $300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 TS has a PVD version of the 090 just out. Looks very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I checked it out. A7750 with faux power reserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51NGH Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Just got the 90 from H factory with faux power reserve. Stunning watch. Don't really see the concern in the pr, no one is going to watch it until it goes down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Get any pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51NGH Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yep, will post tonight. I've owned various PAMs an this is a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Don't really see the concern in the pr, no one is going to watch it until it goes down! This goes to the heart of why I wear watches. It isn't that anyone is going to notice - I don't care if people notice, if anyone mentions my watch I will tell them it is a rep. I wear watches because they are fascinating working mechanical devices. The key word, there, is working. If there is a feature on the watch that doesn't work then, for me, that defeats the point of having the watch in the first place. I don't actually care that much about it being a "perfect" rep. The reason that I hate the button pusher on the A21Js is that it is ugly rather than that it is inaccurate. But a dial that does nothing - no, for me that is a deal breaker. I don't doubt that the H-Factory A7750 is a very good watch - and it will be fine for people who care about the appearance rather than the mechanics. But for me a faux dial is completely unacceptable. That is why I will stick with my A21J with the button pusher. That button is ugly, but it is a lesser evil - at least the functionality is all there. Edited June 8, 2012 by tode1640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51NGH Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hmmm, each to their own. Personally, I don't see the huge issue - if you're obsessed with the movement, buy the real thing. I purchased my real Panerai last year and use these purely so I don't risk damaging my real one everyday. This goes to the heart of why I wear watches. It isn't that anyone is going to notice - I don't care if people notice, if anyone mentions my watch I will tell them it is a rep. I wear watches because they are fascinating working mechanical devices. The key word, there, is working. If there is a feature on the watch that doesn't work then, for me, that defeats the point of having the watch in the first place. I don't actually care that much about it being a "perfect" rep. The reason that I hate the button pusher on the A21Js is that it is ugly rather than that it is inaccurate. But a dial that does nothing - no, for me that is a deal breaker. I don't doubt that the H-Factory A7750 is a very good watch - and it will be fine for people who care about the appearance rather than the mechanics. But for me a faux dial is completely unacceptable. That is why I will stick with my A21J with the button pusher. That button is ugly, but it is a lesser evil - at least the functionality is all there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 DSN is the only choice, his should now have the updated crowns, crown guards and date wheels too, plus the same base movement as the genuine. There is no competition even close..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 How do I find DSN on the internet, Mickey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 if you're obsessed with the movement, buy the real thing. It isn't a question of being obsessed with the movement, it is just that I don't see the point in having a PR model if the PR doesn't work. I don't have any problem with non-PR Panerais - something like a PAM 104 is very similar, except it doesn't have the PR indicator. That is a nice watch, but I fail to see what cluttering up the dial of a 104 with an extra subdial that doesn't do anything does to improve its looks - and that is effectively what the faux reps do. I like my 090, because it is fun watching the PR go up and down. Why don't I buy a gen? Well, I like my PAM 090 - but I like at least five other watches as much. Although I like watches, I don't like them enough to want to tie $40-50K up in them! That is why I'm going to stick with my A21J unless I come across an affordable 2892-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51NGH Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I like my 090, because it is fun watching the PR go up and down. Hmmmmmmmm, I think my definition on fun is different to yours! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Hmmmmmmmm, I think my definition on fun is different to yours! :-) OK - possibly fun was not the best choice of words! Fascination with the device would be a better way of phrasing it. After all, why else wear watches - than to appreciate the beauty of the mechanical device? Most phones are actually better than telling the time than even the most expensive watch, so they are hardly very functional. Edited June 10, 2012 by tode1640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51NGH Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 My only comment is, the movement in the cheaper PAM90 is pretty poor quality and hence appreciate the one in the faux power reserve model much more. Anyway, I think we have concluded it is each to their own on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 My only comment is, the movement in the cheaper PAM90 is pretty poor quality and hence appreciate the one in the faux power reserve model much more. That's why I asked my original question - are there any good functional PR reps that aren't hideously expensive? The short answer is, sadly, no. I might well get a PAM 104 one day - that is almost the same watch but without the PR, and reps are available with a better movement. I would, no doubt, hanker for that PR, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tode1640 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 OK - what does anyone think of this? Panerai Luminor PAM 090 Power Reserve Asia Valjoux 7750 from Watcheden.net. I am intrigued! It claims to have an Asian Valjoux 7750 movement, and yet also has a functional PR - which I thought was impossible for 7750s. It does, though, have the horrible off centre date button. Is this an A21J masquerading as a 7750, or has a 7750 been modified to take a PR mechanism? If the latter is the case, why is there still a date setting button? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 HHHHHMMMMMM Doubtful , No photo of the movement makes me think its not there. Button pusher on the side still and [censored]y DW , crappy crown & CG , its no better than the one you have IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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