Guest G.S.W. Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I have spent 3 days looking for a similar item being sold.I can find red dials but no tropic without the watch too. I am hoping soneone on here can tell me what this is worth without a watch. I know what black dial MARK III would be about but this is brown and I can honestly say I am not sure on this. Any real help would be greatly appreciated. Hash at 11-12 as you see some worn and few gone There is a little blister in the paint at 7-8 (if need be I can do a super close up on this spot) looking for the value in its current untouched condition. Gen origiinal MRK III (BROWN) Trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 The dial itself looks like it may be genuine, but the red lettering is aftermarket or, at least, was applied (&/or overpainted red) some time after the dial left the factory & by someone other than Rolex. The lume may be of similar lineage. Value? Assuming the dial is genuine, a bit less than a standard dial. If the dial is aftermarket, a bit less than its original price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I've seen one with meters first in perfect condition sell for 10,000$ not sure if the condition would seriously affect the price but the one I'm reffering to was black. Is say that is a very valuable dial. I'm not an expert at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Wow Freddy how can you tell the red lettering was applied later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Nevermind I see what you saw now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm not sure it's a gen dial printing, and I'm pretty sure that's not an authentic tropical fade to brown on the paint. It should be less homogeneous in its fade, like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.S.W. Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I will comment on all those interesting things about authenticity but before I do I would maybe hope some more people would chime in. Your oppinion is more then welcome. If you think its all original or someone touched it up or its a fake all together. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Original dial. But touched up with red Sub text without question. And as Nanuq says, the fade on a tropical dial is almost always less uniform than this. It's been 'baked', probably with a hot halogen lamp. Walk away... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 The more I look at it, the more I think the dial is new/aftermarket, regardless of whether the red was done by the factory or added later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.S.W. Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 More writing shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 The more I look at it, the more I think the dial is new/aftermarket, regardless of whether the red was done by the factory or added later. Have to disagree on it being aftermarket. The problem is as you say yourself "the more you look at it". In other words, because there are some blatant details here that fail the 'smell' test, it almost follows you start to question other aspects of the dial. That said, I think the recent proliferation of so-called tropical dials like this in almost NOS condition (which itself should scream out given how genuine tropical dials gain their patina) rings alarm bells and I know of at least one major vintage dealer who, without concrete provenance, won't touch them with a bargepole. Whatever the reality and indeed true value, the fact is it's not a particularly nice dial either way IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Plus the brown fade on a tropical always seems to come up from "within" the dial, where this brown looks like it's sitting on top of the paint. Here's more to show what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.S.W. Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Better light and better camera on this pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 You could snap that with a 20mp Canon with L series lens and it would still look like poo. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.S.W. Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 What a cool way to learn about the forum, its members and the level of knowledge they hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 GSW if you want to buy it then go for it, I think it's worth about $400...There you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 IMHO, definitely just another refinished dial "reasonably" well done. Nice try by the seller but doesn't cut it. I have seen the "tinted" 16520 dials with the same improper coloring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiesn089 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 So this one's really aftermarket? I thought it was genuine, but in a pretty poor state. What are the tells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.S.W. Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 So this one's really aftermarket? I thought it was genuine, but in a pretty poor state. What are the tells? So far these are all opinions. Easy to say its real or its fake but please back up your reasons if you an expert to call it. IF the color is wrong then can you explain why you know that. A poor picture of a watch dial inside a busted crystal hardly is any help. Do you know how and why the dials turn brown? Do you know what causes the change to happen? Does having it stored or worn slow or speed the process? Are all Trop dials supposed to look the exact same or does the defect very in each dial batch? To say the color is wrong and to not explain why when the color change is due to a paint defect that can be sped up or slowed down by outside sources is a very gutsy call without knowing the history of the dial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Take it over to the Rolex forum or more specifically VRF if you want more expert opinions...I for one would love to read some responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Again I'm far from an expert but I know that the term tropical dial is used to describe a dial that has changed color due to exposure to the sun, mostly in tropical country's, for many years and or moisture. So a dial that has been stored properly or a nos dial will never change color as far as I can tell logically... All tropical dials should therefore vary depending on those two factors so if one has been exposed to the tropical sun for 30 years should be lighter and look diff than one that was in the sun for 50 yrs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I meant darker, anyhow you get the idea, they should all vary in appearance depending on exposure to the elements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.S.W. Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 This is the common theory. I think though its a little bit of a mistery then whats truly known. This TROPICAL look only seems to accur on Mark II and MARK III dials BUT not all mark II and III. Only certain batches of paint seem to have had the wrong or bad mixture and this is why the dials are worth more... They are much more rare. Since they are rare & valuable of coarse they are attempted to be faked. The color iteself I think can not the deterermening factor of good or bad.. This color will vary depending on several things and some not known. One is what cc33 said with sun exposure. You do not have to be in the TROPICS to have your dial turn brown. The sun however seems to have sped up the dial change on many so the term was born and stuck. People who live in tropical places spend more time in the sun and on boats etc. The best way to decide (I will add in my opinion) is to start with the lettering. The red lettering is the wrong place to start since this will have TINY variations in due to the hieght and weght of the paint. Once it was laid is would shift slighlty. Not much but enough that under a loupe or close up you will see small changes. The other letters ( white letters) are the best way to start the authentication. Then the hash marks & the lume. Then the dial metal iteself and the back of the dial. This is my procees and you can go in any order you choose. The sicence behind the reds was never exact but what is now known has seemed to hold true for some years now and can assist in authentication. Rolex will not release all details on what they did and how they did it then and now. Maybe because they do not share but also I belive because they themselvs are not sure of everything. They were not the company in the 50 & 60s that they are today. Plus computers changed record keeping. For those that care the dial is original and authentic. Its not for sale and you do not have to agree that it is original. Any dial color will look a little different in person then on camera expscially if all you have is an iphone for pics. Colors under diff light and computer settings all this stuff an effect the way it looks. The dial is brown in color and the color is not as tropical brown as others out there. This is or can be for reasons stated earlier. The point of the listing was to get values on the dial in its current state. So many RED dials are showing up like new and this is im my oppinion BULL. I have been around these watches for a while and I have sold RED dials before and I never get one that looks like some of these dealers on ebay. BOX, PAPERS, MINT DIAL. Hmmmmm. This dial is realistic to what you could exspect in a 50 year old dial I think that has been removed and stored. One person said 400 was the value. I think this is way off and maybe a guess by him but if that is all he would pay then that is what its worth to him. Thank you for the posts and I welcome anymore regaurdless if you agree with me or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 So far these are all opinions. Easy to say its real or its fake but please back up your reasons if you an expert to call it. IF the color is wrong then can you explain why you know that. A poor picture of a watch dial inside a busted crystal hardly is any help. Do you know how and why the dials turn brown? Do you know what causes the change to happen? Does having it stored or worn slow or speed the process? Are all Trop dials supposed to look the exact same or does the defect very in each dial batch? To say the color is wrong and to not explain why when the color change is due to a paint defect that can be sped up or slowed down by outside sources is a very gutsy call without knowing the history of the dial. What exactly is your aim here? Your OP suggested you were looking for advice on a possible purchase of this dial. Which you've had. Avoid it like the plague. Strange though how your latter posts seem to devalue and refuse to accept those opinions and ask for further justification. I may be wrong here and it just may be your tone and writing style, but it almost (to me anyway) reads as if you've put together this redial yourself and are seeking QC here? As BWS says, take it to the gen forums and see what you get. Can assure you it won't be as patient, informed or polite as you've had here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I've just read your latest post so that kind of answers (but not completely) my question. I still don't quite know what the point of this enquiry was. FWIW I said the base dial is likely genuine but there's little doubt amongst those offering their thoughts here, that the rest of it is not. It's simply all wrong visually and citing Rolex's amateurish practices in the 60s doesn't qualify anything. As for worth, it's what anyone is (stupid enough) prepared to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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