Raids really messed up my first Rep purchases!

[Parrot15]

Hello guys,

I'd like to begin by introducing myself. I'm a watch lover, have owned a few gens (mostly Cartier) over the years, a newbie to the rep world, but am very intrigued by the quality of today's reps compared to gens. *Lengthy story below, bear with me*

Here my first journey in this hobby begins: After closely examining and really studying up on good reps, trusted dealers, etc. I decided to make my first rep purchase from Trusty Time. I ordered a Hublot Ice Bang (I believe it was a V6 *noobie alert* with the platinum plated bridges and all) about a month ago now. About two or three days after ordering Andrew contacted me and let me know about the current situation with the factories, and the raids that seem to be plaguing them. He told me the Hublot factory was closed due to these raids and it could take 3-4 weeks for them to get my watch in stock and ready to ship. I told him this was no problem, I could wait.

In the meantime, I had been looking at some PAMs and had read that the 111 M from Noob was a pretty good rep so I decided that while I waited for the Ice Bang I would order one of these to entertain myself with. Andrew confirmed it was in stock and a week after the order was placed he sent me QC pics, which I glanced over (noobie mistake) and approved, and then he sent it out. After waiting another two weeks for the delivery to arrive (held up an entire week in customs), I got the watch and absolutely loved it. However, upon further inspection I noticed that it was not an M Series like I had ordered, it was apparently an N, or so the case back reads. I loved the watch anyways, so despite having been sent the wrong Series (partly my fault, didn't notice the N serial in the QC pics) this didn't bother me much. I had read the Ns from Noob were great as well (perhaps better?). Anyways, having learned my lesson I decided that when the QC pics for the Ice Bang arrived I'd inspect them more carefully.

They arrived a few hours ago, and I immediately noticed that the strap that it featured in the pics (gummy aligator) was not the one I'd asked for (I wanted the smooth rubber one) so no biggie, I informed Andrew and he said he'd change it. But then I noticed something that worried me. Now, remember I am very new to this so I may be terribly wrong about this but, I noticed that the ceramic case had a matte finish to it on the watch in the QC pics. Now to my understanding, the gen Ice Bang (numerals), be it with the tantalum or tungsten bezel has a kinda shiny/brushed black ceramic case, while the Ice Bang Evolution (stick markers) has the black matte case (like the All Black II). So I believe what I was looking at was kinda a rep hybrid featuring the Dial from the average Ice Bang (with numerals) inside the ceramic case of the Ice Bang Evolution (who's dial is supposed to be stick markers instead of numerals). Needless to say I informed Andrew. He then insisted that the case was correct, even after I sent him a stock QC picture from his website which I believe contradicted this. He then said that, that was the last watch left, that the factory had recently reopened for a couple of days and had been shut down again due to the raids, possibly for another two weeks. He said if I didn't want the watch he would offer me a refund. I took the refund. I may be new at this but my gut and a bit of research led me to believe that the watch wasn't right, not even in rep standards. I am awaiting the refund but I know Andrew is good for it.

Well, now that I've told my story, my questions to the seasoned veterans on this board are as follows:

1. What do you make of the mix up with the PAM?

2. What do you think of the issue with the Hublot Ice Bang?

3. How much do you think the raids, lack of stock, etc. influenced the situation with both orders?

4. And most importantly, what trusted dealer can send me a proper Ice Bang V6 now? I've been looking forward to this watch for a month and am now completely lost as to how to get my hands on one.

[FxrAndy]

Welcome to the world of reps and rep sellers

[TeeJay]

First off, welcome to the party

1. There was no mix up. The watch you received was what was in the photo. That it was not the watch you wanted you should have paid closer attention to the pictures and discussed with Andrew prior to telling him to send it.

2. It is a replica watch. It is not going to be 100% like the original. If you cannot accept such minor variations, then I don't think that you will find replica watches a satisfying purchase....

3. Not at all. Very few people have experienced delays due to these raids, so either the dealers are able to go above and beyond to still provide goods, or there are no raids.

4. Everyone has their own favorite dealers, recommending one is like recommending someone's favorite meal: There's no guarantee another will like it...

[Watchmeister]

Unfortunately, my answer is welcome to the current state of reps. On the PAM, with the introduction of QC pics the burden (or opportunity) of selecting your specific rep falls on you. Until 2 years ago you literally blindly ordered and what you got is what you got. If it arrived functioning fine than the dealer has fulfilled his obligation. On the Hublot the fact that you were offered a refund is also the right answer. I don't know whether supply disruptions is a permanent thing but there's no question that the supply has had to take a step back. And so should you. In the 10 or so years I have been a member of this and predecessor forums there was a 2 year period where ordering a rep was as sure a thing of ordering from Amazon with the one risk that the watch wasn't working correctly. But for 8 of those years ordering was more of an adventure. Watches came and went out of stock (often quickly). Different dealer's had different stocks and you bought very carefully. For now at least it looks more like days of old.

[Parrot15]

First off, welcome to the party

1. There was no mix up. The watch you received was what was in the photo. That it was not the watch you wanted you should have paid closer attention to the pictures and discussed with Andrew prior to telling him to send it.

2. It is a replica watch. It is not going to be 100% like the original. If you cannot accept such minor variations, then I don't think that you will find replica watches a satisfying purchase....

3. Not at all. Very few people have experienced delays due to these raids, so either the dealers are able to go above and beyond to still provide goods, or there are no raids.

4. Everyone has their own favorite dealers, recommending one is like recommending someone's favorite meal: There's no guarantee another will like it...

Thanks for the reply TeeJay. I must admit you're right about the PAM. I did look at the picture and give the go ahead, and like I said I am fine with that I believe I still got a great watch. What I thought was weird is that me and Andrew corresponded about an M so many times and yet he sent out an N, but yeah, I understand this might happen with any dealer at any time, just thought maybe there was a possibility it had something to do with the raids and the mess with the dealer's stocks.

As to the Hublot, look, I know it's a rep and that it isn't going to be 100%. In fact I was ok with all the so-called flaws/tells that come with that particular Ice Bang Rep, like the Bezel being the wrong material, the movement being stamped "HUB 4100" on the model with the knurled edges which used a HUB 44 on the gen, the blue tinge in the double AR, date wheel, etc. I am fine with all of that. But on all Ice Bang I V6 reps I saw members post on this forum and others, and on the pictures on Andrew's website the rep used a case nearly identical to the gen where in the watch I would have received from Andrew, it used a completely different case that I hadn't seen on that particular rep model ever before. My theory is that the factory reopened after the raids, quickly put together the watch with whatever parts they could find (in this case a ceramic case they've always used on a different rep model and never on this one), and later handed it over to Andrew, but that's just my guess. Anyways I just think that if I'm right it is very unfortunate that the factories are going through all of this and that it may also be affecting the quality of reps and the business of dealers.

[Parrot15]

Here are the Example QC Pics from Trusty Time of the watch I ordered from them and what I expected it to look like:

Notice the case construction, the ceramic seems to be a combination of shiny polished black ceramic, and kinda brushed too. This is how it was on the TT website and how I've seen it also from other people who have ordered and received this rep, and it is identical to the case on the gen.

Now this was the case that the watch on the QC pics that was sent to me was using:

Notice the matte finish on the black ceramic. This case is from a BB All Black II rep (and it is used on other BB rep models too). The watch on the QC pictures I received featured the Matte case and everything else was like it is on the first picture, so it was basically a mix of BB ALL Black II Rep and the Ice Bang rep, something I hadn't seen done before. This is what led to my theory of the factory pulling a rush job trying to make this rep with whatever parts they had. Perhaps the only ceramic case they could find at the time to build the watch was the matte ceramic (incorrect even for this rep) instead of the polished ceramic they have always used.

[cc33]

I have had those issues when ordering from trusted dealers, there's not much you can do. These days I buy from the sales area in the forum. You get better value because the prices are less and sometimes mods have been done. I'm much happier now that I get what I perceive to be good value.

[TeeJay]

Here are the Example QC Pics from Trusty Time of the watch I ordered from them and what I expected it to look like:

Notice the case construction, the ceramic seems to be a combination of shiny polished black ceramic, and kinda brushed too. This is how it was on the TT website and how I've seen it also from other people who have ordered and received this rep, and it is identical to the case on the gen.

Now this was the case that the watch on the QC pics that was sent to me was using:

Notice the matte finish on the black ceramic. This case is from a BB All Black II rep (and it is used on other BB rep models too). The watch on the QC pictures I received featured the Matte case and everything else was like it is on the first picture, so it was basically a mix of BB ALL Black II Rep and the Ice Bang rep, something I hadn't seen done before. This is what led to my theory of the factory pulling a rush job trying to make this rep with whatever parts they had. Perhaps the only ceramic case they could find at the time to build the watch was the matte ceramic (incorrect even for this rep) instead of the polished ceramic they have always used.

Ahh, I see what you mean about the finish now, and yes, two totally different watch components. I would definitely discuss with Andrew what you want, and that you're not prepared to accept the matte-finished case. I'm personaly very scheptical about all this raid business, and don't believe anything Andrew and Josh say about anything (but that is just my personal opinion and one not shared by many) With regards the M/N issue, I agree, it is different to what you had been discussing, but 'bait and switch' is a fairly common occurence in the rep world. I've previously ordered a 16610 Submariner from another dealer, the sales photo showed classic small 16610 hour markings on the dial. However, what I received, featured Maxi Dial hour markers. The dealer I use doesn't use QC pictures, and it wasn't really a deal breaking issue, but it was a good reminder that that is how this hobby goes sometimes, and it can be a case of rolling with the punches. I used to be very much of the opinion that if someone orders X, they should receive X and not Y, but things like the Submariner Scenario, I've come to tolerate things a bit more... As before with the M/N issue, yes, not ideal that Andrew would source you an N rather than an M if that was what was discussed, but the CQ pics are a double edged sword that give dealers the easy out of "but you approved it..." (personally, I don't like QC pics, I simply take what comes )

[rogerthat]

Regarding the Pam

No mix up

When the factory changed the caseback drop m to n they no longer made the m nor will they moving forward

Many times dealers don't update their websites

It is the same watch just with a different caseback so not sure why you would care?

[Parrot15]

Regarding the Pam

No mix up

When the factory changed the caseback drop m to n they no longer made the m nor will they moving forward

Many times dealers don't update their websites

It is the same watch just with a different caseback so not sure why you would care?

Ah, I see... So the watch is still the same physically. Like I said, I didn't really care about it cause I still love the watch, however I was under the impression that there were slight differences between the M and the N series from Noob. I wasn't aware that they were the same watch with different casebacks. Thanks for the info though.

[maxman]

I really see no issue with the Pam for reasons stated above. But there are no excuses for the Hublot. You were shown one watch and sent something completely different. This Is on Andrew...not you TM. That being said...Andrew is one of the best dealers around. I have orderd several watches from Andrew....never a problem. I would contact him asap and let him know about the [censored] up mix up.

Good luck.

Mike

[Parrot15]

I really see no issue with the Pam for reasons stated above. But there are no excuses for the Hublot. You were shown one watch and sent something completely different. This Is on Andrew...not you TM. That being said...Andrew is one of the best dealers around. I have orderd several watches from Andrew....never a problem. I would contact him asap and let him know about the [censored] up mix up.

Good luck.

Mike

All is well with Andrew. He already issued me a refund. Got all my money back to the last penny, and since the watch was never shipped (I spotted the problem and contacted him before he shipped it) I don't have to worry about shipping anything back. I'm trying my luck with Josh now. Ordered an Ice Bang Evolution, which is actually a more accurate rep than the Ice Bang I. The only flaw with the IB Evo that I can spot (aside from the usual flaws with these HBB reps) is that the case back matches the color of the bezel which is correct for the Ice Bang I but not the Evo. The IB Evo is supposed have a black ceramic case back. I might try to locate a more correct case back later. Anyone knows who sells individual HBB parts like that?

[maxman]

Im sorry TM...I didn't read your entire post. My mistake. No surprise about the refund from Andrew. Like I said "Andrew Is one of the best dealers around". Many dealers would have wanted you to choose another rep Instead of offering you a full refund. Thats why we strongly suggest that new members don't buy there reps from anyone but the dealers you see here. Some might be tempted by a lower price...but if things don't go well you will have little recourse. Here at RWG you have members/staff/admin that have many years of experence. So It's best to stick with the dealers here.

Again.. like stated above...qc pictures are a fairly new concept. Not long ago you got what you got and that was It. if it was the wrong watch you would have to send it back to China..a big pita..or keep it. Overall It looks like things worked out well.

Mike