Valty Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Great to know your 6538 project is on a good way CC Can't wait to see the final result, it will be amazing !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 God damn pro!!! I just [censored] in my pants Cc, you never ever seems to amaze me!!! I think you made a deal with the devil Anyway, send a signed postcard my way with your autograph and i will tell me girl in 7years (then she is teen) what reps are all about!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Lol, thank you Zeleni, I appreciate that. I removed the bezel it came with and tried mine on, perfect fit. I didn't press it all the way down but you get the idea, it's such a beautiful upgrade! Dial arrives tomorrow and its off to get worked on. Here's a before and after with the gen bezel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott60 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Hi, I'm reading this with fascination as I'm new to vintage subs. I just acquired a nice 1530 movement and plan on buying a 6538 case and dial from Minh. Your dial experience has me a bit worried. I'm also having a tough time telling from the pics you posted what is different about the red depth and lume on the one you received vs. the one in his picture. Thanks in advance for any education you can give me related to the details on these two dials.. best Todd p.s. by the way this is a phenomenal looking watch..wear it in good health Edited February 7, 2013 by scott60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hi Todd, thank you for the nice comments. I'm very happy to help. The original gen dial for this watch was made in the 50's and therefore the hour plots should look like the lume was applied by hand over 60 years ago. It should not look perfect like the first dial he sent to me. It looks like the lume was lazer printed on. The lume has no depth either (should be slightly raised).. The replacement looks a lot more like the lume was hand applied like gen and slightly 'messy'. Perfect! It also has that slight raised look as gen. I will show you a few gen dials and then the two from Minh see if you can see what I'm referring to. I believe that the 1000$ dial is made with a similar process to the gen where the gilt is actually coming through from the plate itself and then a black lacquer is applied leaving the gilt writing surrounds and track uncovered. Hard to explain but you can see that with the first dial, the gilt writing has been painted on.. Lastly the red depth is made using a special paint on top of the lacquer. Again hard to explain but the red depth writing should have a slight raised look over the lacquer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Another example of Minh's dials, again one is made gen like and the other is not. The second dial is 300$ and the first is 1000$. Can you see how the gilt is painted or printed on top of the lacquer on the cheaper one and coming through from the plate in the more expensive one. A trick is to look for any shadowing on the gilt text, that tells us that it has texture and angles and is in fact painted on. No shadows on the proper gilt text because it has no depth or relief whatsoever it's simply coming through from the plate. You might want to read this it explains it a bit more. http://rolexpassionreport.com/8112/be-aware-of-the-new-generation-redone-fake-vintage-rolex-dials-that-are-coming-to-the-market/ Edited February 8, 2013 by cc33 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Although both have issues, the 2nd dial (in the post above) is more accurate overall. The most obvious problem is the off-center = sign, which is a dead-giveaway on a Roiex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott60 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 cc33, That was a great lesson for me! Are white depth letters also painted on top of the lacquer? I'd been looking at Minh's site for a week and now I finally understand why two similar (to me) looking dials were so far apart in price. Fascinating stuff.. thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Is this what you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Although both have issues, the 2nd dial (in the post above) is more accurate overall. The most obvious problem is the off-center = sign, which is a dead-giveaway on a Roiex. I guess so, I personally don't like either but I was just trying to explain about the process involved. The fonts, = sign and other things are a whole other story of course. The second dial, even though more correct in those aspects, is simply all painted on so in the right light it looks awful compared to gen or the first dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 cc33, That was a great lesson for me! Are white depth letters also painted on top of the lacquer? I'd been looking at Minh's site for a week and now I finally understand why two similar (to me) looking dials were so far apart in price. Fascinating stuff.. thanks again Glad it helped. Yes white depth letters are always painted on top of the lacquer as are the words officially certified chronometer if there.. The only thing that is coming up from below is the gilt stuff, so the words rolex oyster perpetual, the coronet, the word Swiss at the bottom, the plot surrounds and the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Holy Crap, CC. My head is spinning. Once again, a testament to the incredible knowledge on this board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Is this what you are talking about? I can't really tell because the pic is not close or clear enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) This is a close up of my 5510 dial. It's actually a redial of a 6538 and is the best pic I have to show what I mean. The white depth rating numbers are visibly painted on the lacquer and the gilt writing is from below. Edited February 8, 2013 by cc33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott60 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 This is a close up of my 5510 dial. It's actually a redial of a 6538 and is the best pic I have to show what I mean. The white depth rating numbers are visibly painted on the lacquer and the gilt writing is from below. OK, easy to see the raised depth numbers. Difficult for me to see in the pic that the gilt is from below. I think it's probably a lot easier under the loupe. Then (under loupe) do you see the white dial lacquer ending where the gilt begins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I can't really tell because the pic is not close or clear enough. The gilt is a bit exaggerated in that I left the sandpaper 'swirl' in the brass. But the process is as you outlined, and as I read a few years back. The pic is of a water-slide decal printed on an inkjet printer. Inkjet does not print white. So, on that dial the black is all the decal provides, and the 'gilt' shows through the decal from the face of the blank dial. Obviously you can make the dial face any color, or bare. I think the 'process' is similar to the way they used to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 That looks very good. Man I wish I didn't have so much going on now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 OK, easy to see the raised depth numbers. Difficult for me to see in the pic that the gilt is from below. I think it's probably a lot easier under the loupe. Then (under loupe) do you see the white dial lacquer ending where the gilt begins? If you mean can I see the black dial lacquer ending where the gilt begins then yes. It is very obvious under a loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 The gilt is a bit exaggerated in that I left the sandpaper 'swirl' in the brass. But the process is as you outlined, and as I read a few years back. The pic is of a water-slide decal printed on an inkjet printer. Inkjet does not print white. So, on that dial the black is all the decal provides, and the 'gilt' shows through the decal from the face of the blank dial. Obviously you can make the dial face any color, or bare. I think the 'process' is similar to the way they used to do it. Yes very similar. I can't believe how much effort went into making these dials back then. It's an ingenious process that stood the test of time. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yes very similar. I can't believe how much effort went into making these dials back then. It's an ingenious process that stood the test of time. I love it. I would really like to see a picture of a gilt dial made by Rolex right after it was finished. I think that gilt was far more 'gilty' when fresh than we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott60 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 If you mean can I see the black dial lacquer ending where the gilt begins then yes. It is very obvious under a loop. Yes, sorry I meant black dial lacquer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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