correctime Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 So the build for a 16803 TT begins. Can anyone acurrately put the years of proction run on this dial. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 16803 Was a transitional model that was produced between 1986-87. Replaced by the 16613. From what I've read they are pretty rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Is there anything on this dial that signifies the transitional model of that era?? I have to admit my heart skipped half a beat when I saw this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Google Rolex 16803 and you will find some info. Since this was a transitional model and was only produced for a very short time, they are pretty rare, certainly not like Paul Newman Daytonas or 6538's but I'm sure not too many were made. AFA the dial, the same dial was used in the 16613 which followed the 16803. So honestly, your dial could be from a 16803 or an early 16613 before the dials changed to superluminova. When you finish, you will have a franken of a rare bird. Do you plan to use a Rolex movement, 3035? What case are you planning to use? Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 For a correct 16803 you need the long coronet dial. Like the one I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Thanks for all the input guys. But the detail I immediately noticed, putting this dial at a low production run time span is being overloooked. I know the exact year this watch was pulled from....trust me it's a correct 16803....but what year ?? panarei153 was right in saying it's a pretty rare dial so it's likely he see's what I see. It's as rare as and had a limited production run as the 1680000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 John Holbrook says the 16803 debuted in 1984. http://luxurytyme.com/en/rolex-reviews/comparative-review-the-rolex-submariner-16613-vs-the-rolex-submariner-116613/ I saw one 16803 in Antiquorum that was dated to 1983. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I just read another article that said 1983-88. Rolex ??????? "They know, but they never tell"!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Beginning of '85(dialed produced only in 1984 for '85 models) is correct but this particular run didn't last until '88.....it ended in late '84...VERY short production and VERY rare... C'mon guys....look at the dial. What do you see that stands out amoung the rest of the 16800/16803 dials ?? This and the insert was offered to me by a buddy (and a great guy with an unlimited fountain of Rolex History Facts.....40+ year veterans) I immediately spotted it....and of course immediately accepted the offer to purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenHornet Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Is this a real Rolex or some sort of fantasy model? GreenHornet's Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 No idea Brother. Now back to the subject of the 16803 please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpz5142 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Matte dial with WG surrounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Matte dial with WG surrounds? yellow gold surrounds on the 16803 (WG is on the SS version 16800) But nope....I really can't believe this is being overlooked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpz5142 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Flat S? Anything else and I'm flat out guessing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I've looked at 50 different 16800 and 16803 dials since tyou started this topic. I even have my gen 16610 sitting in front of me, looking at the dial thru a 8X loupe. I can't see any diference. I'm sure that the fact that the early 16800 dials were matte black and WOW!! i just realized, your dial is matte, every one of the others i have seen are gloss. Am I getting warm? So this one would have to be a very early,early dial, before they switched over to gloss? i bet this came from one of the first runs of 16083's probably built in 83,sold in 84 or therebouts. Why in the world did your friend take the dial/ insert out of the watch? Unless it was totally destroyed, I would bet the watch would be worth a pretty good premium over other 16803's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpz5142 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I already asked about the matte dial and it was a no-go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Look at this dial and see the long coronet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Flat S? Anything else and I'm flat out guessing! Flat S? Anything else and I'm flat out guessing! YES...the flat S. Very limited production run...even shorter than the highly sought after 168000. Good eye Panerai153 regarding matte finish. I didn't know this until I began the 16800 build but as it was put to me, 16800 dials with gold ringed marker came glossy from the factory. Over time they did one of three things: 1-nothing 2-turned matte 3- lacquer cracked causing the "spider web" effect. I asked my buddy the same question regarding why it was pulled. It was actually pulled by his father out of his fathers watch that owned it new since 1985. These guys (my buddy and his father) have been in the Rolex/Fine Watches and Jewelry game for decades. His father is somewhat of a perfectionist and the darking of the markers appearantly bothered him. (he too asked as his Father "why would you pull a perfectly good dial") there's also a very interesting story regarding that insert. It's the transitional version from 1986 when Rolex switched case material from 316 to 904 SS. pictures don't show it nearly good enough but it seems this insert has a brighter silvery gold metallic laquer used for the numbers. By itself it looks more like a 16800 Black/Silver insert but the idea was to use this approach, allowing the reflection of the 18k bezel and gold font on the dial to turn it gold. I haven't handled this one yet (but it's mine now ) though the pics he sent me shows it works...the numbers turn gold when on the 18k bezel ring. Not nearly as vivid in color as the gold metallic insert of the standard 16803/16808/16613/16618 but certainly gold. IMHO it's a perfect match to the shade of gilt font on the dial and the patina'd markers and insert pearl are icing on the cake. I'll be using this dial/insert combination on a 16803 I'm planning. I LOVE the dark patina but I'm sure finding a set of gold 3035 tritium hands to match will be difficult. I've got a set of NOS silver 3035/3135 hands still in the pack from Rolex to trade if anyone happens to have (or knows someone that has) gold hands with dark patina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Look at this dial and see the long coronet. A recent educational "sit down" regarding Factory Printed Rolex dials on beyeler and singer dial plates has me skeptical about your dial not being refinished sometime in it's life...for 2 reasons: 1- tiny head hole in your tall coronet 2- the hyphen between Swiss and T<25 isn't centered above the 30 second indice. (the placement of the R in oyster in referring to the R in Rolex is iffy too. This newfound information is debatable and is open for discussion. I mentioned this to dutchguy upon seeing his Super Franken builds (which by the way look AWESOME) so this is a good thead for facts and info from the Rolex Pro's. Does anyone happen to own a 1985, '86 or '87 (exact dates they switched from painted markers/matte finish is sketchy) 16800 168000 that they've owned since new...one owner...knowing the dial has never been refinished ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbaria Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Just a observation: Picture is a gen dial in a 168003 transitional.. The production fun on the dial was 1986, ready for the wrist 1987...The dials didn't change much from 1983 in the 16803 until the end of the transitions and certainly not from watch to watch... the common occurrences are as follows: 1. The position of the coronet in relationship to the 12:00 marker 2. The head hole in the coronet being 3/4 length of the letter "L" 3. The placement of "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE" in relation to the name "ROLEX" 4. A picture framed date window 5. placement of the term "SWISS-T<25 between the "28 and "32" indices with "30" indice splitting the hyphen between "SWISS" and "T" These are only common occurrences and there are some variations between different runs of dials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Great input Brother. And greatly appreciated. So then you're saying it's possible that some Rolex Factory printed 16800/16803 dials (NOT refinish jobs) would have....... 1- the hyphen not centered above 30 second indice (which is perfectly centered under the 6 position stick bar) ? 2- a tiny head hole on the coronet at 12 position? 3- the R in oyster not being under the right leg of the R in Rolex ? The "picture framed" opening for the date ? 4- the ends of the < in T<25 not lining up perfectly with the 29 second indice ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 mitch....??....oh mitch...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 A recent educational "sit down" regarding Factory Printed Rolex dials on beyeler and singer dial plates has me skeptical about your dial not being refinished sometime in it's life...for 2 reasons: 1- tiny head hole in your tall coronet 2- the hyphen between Swiss and T<25 isn't centered above the 30 second indice. (the placement of the R in oyster in referring to the R in Rolex is iffy too. This newfound information is debatable and is open for discussion. I mentioned this to dutchguy upon seeing his Super Franken builds (which by the way look AWESOME) so this is a good thead for facts and info from the Rolex Pro's. Does anyone happen to own a 1985, '86 or '87 (exact dates they switched from painted markers/matte finish is sketchy) 16800 168000 that they've owned since new...one owner...knowing the dial has never been refinished ?? It's the angle of the picture, but I see what you man. However, if you look at the other pictures of this same dial, you can see what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 If other pics of other 16800 dials show a hyphen between the Swiss and letter T that isn't pefectly centered above the 30 second indice they're refinished dials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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