rionrlty Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 As I said earlier I’ve been into reps for nearly 20 years. In a way I’ve kind of grown with the industry. I don’t believe that good replicas really change the bottom line much at the gen manufacturers. A long held theory of mine has been largely confirmed during my short time so far on the forum. People who own reps, especially good ones, also own gens. Reps are a matter of practicality for many for who can't afford to own 20, 50, or even a 100 genuine expensive watches. However, when I wear a $300 Submariner the vast majority of people who see it, do not suspect that it’s not real. It just makes them want a real one. As a result I feel that what we do is actually a form of advertising, which promotes the brand. I’ve been a restorer and collector of classic cars for most of my life. Most of the cars that are restored are done, at least partly, by amateurs using poorly made reproduced parts. Amateur labor and poor reproduction parts combined meant that most restored cars fell far below the pinnacle of a “Concourse Quality” restoration. However 99.9% of the people who saw them at a typical car show considered them to be like new and were unable to see a difference between them and the show winning perfect car. As a result, after restoring several of these “concourse quality” cars I fell back to much less expensive ordinary restorations which seemed to give me the same amount of satisfaction. I think it’s the same with replica watches. I can pick out microscopic imperfections on a restored car as well as some of the experts on the forum can pick out small flaws in replica watches. I take pride in that ability and appreciate that someone can and will do that on the watches. I too gravitate toward perfection but, as I learned on my cars, perfection costs a lot of money. I would rather have ten, slightly imperfect cars, instead of one perfect one, which I can’t drive anyway because I might reduce its perfection by doing so. Perhaps a good compromise would be to have one perfect one, to take to shows on a trailer and win admiration from experts, and 9 slightly imperfect ones, to use every day in public, for which I get the same amount of attention from the masses of uninitiated admirers. I read most of the reviews on the forum especially Breitling which is my favorite brand. I appreciate that someone took the trouble to do these reviews and take great pride in having learned from this. The truth is however that probably 999,999 out 100,000 people you meet, even with the Navitimer and it’s numerous flaws, would not be able to spot the replica, even with a 10x loop and plenty of time and I think this goes for most owners of genuine Navitimers. In fact I believe that over 2/3 of watch makers would not know the difference with a cursory examination. I’ve owned several real Navitimers, as well as several other brands, down through the years and what is most obvious is the evolutionary changes, even on gens, over that period of time. This was especially evident after mass production started and many parts, especially dials, were sub-contracted, so just as on production automobiles, things changed slightly over years or even months. It’s great that someone is interested enough to find and record the history of these changes but, once again, the average Joe, even rich ones who have no problem spending $30,000 on a watch, would not know the difference. That’s just my opinion folks. I’d like to hear yours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indywatchguy Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Nice two cents rion! I too have been into collecting watches for about 20yrs I own a few gens and too many reps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge D Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Very nice post, reflects exactly what i feel about reps. All they need out of box is a nice strap. If my rep is nice looking, i wont send it to a modder unless it breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paneristi_man Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Fully agree. It's only the folks in this forum that will bother to look for flaws and be able to pick them. The rest of the 99.999999% will not know the difference. Case in point, I brought my rep (a Baume & Mercier) to a watch repairer to fix the bracelet. He looked at the watch , commented on the brand and got me a replacement clasp which incidentally fit. So the rep bracelet could take an OEM part and he can't tell it's a rep. Btw the only way to tell it's a rep on that watch is the fonts on the datewheel. Who in the world would bother checking font types except nuts like us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyfras Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Those two cents are worth about a dollar! Nice post. And I agree regarding rep wearing being a form of advertising for gen makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rionrlty Posted March 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Hi Paneristi, I have a good story too Back about 20 years ago the only really good replicas were Rolex Subs and Yacht Masters. I had both in stainless steel and they were two of my earliest watches. They both came with ETA movements and still perform well to this day. I was curious about just how good they were and took the Yacht Master in to a watchmaker who had worked on my gen watches for a long time. Restoring old Rolex’ was kind of a hobby for him. He was also a good friend so I felt safe. I handed it to him and told him I had just picked it up on Ebay for a really good price but it was running slow and ask him to check it out for me. He always let me come in the back near his work bench so I followed him in and we talked about the watch for a while. He said it really looked great to him and that I’d really made a good buy. I watched as he used the special tool to remove the back cover and continued as he donned his loop visor and started the inspection. He looked for maybe a minute and put up his visor and just continued to stare down at the watch. After a couple of minutes he removed the visor and, clearly reluctantly, turned around with a very serious look on his face. “I’m afraid I have some bad news for you”, He said, and then continued “someone has put an incorrect movement in this Rolex”. I just stood there smiling broadly and then finally simply said, “I know, It’s what they call a replica”. “It’s a what”? He asked. He was clearly relieved that I knew about the watch and was impressed with the quality. Once he was aware of it he began to notice small differences but commented that without knowing he probably would not have suspected. Good replicas were more expensive back then and when I told him that I had paid $550 for the watch he was even more impressed. At that time I had two Genuine SS Date Justs but from that time forward felt good about my sub and YM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Great post, and great to read that we have something in common. When I lived in the UK, I used to restore classic cars. Had four I had to let go when I moved to Finland, broke my heart, but all went to good homes, and two of the new owners flew in from other parts of Europe to then drive them home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 What a Great post Rion I'm from a background in Mechanics and appreciate that side of watches even though I choose not to mess with them myself (large fingers ) I'm now in the presentation side of the auto industry and love it, gives me some outlet for my OCD Great to have you here and look forward to hearing from you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryajet Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 ++++++1 I used the car example with my friends earlier in the week. 1960's Shelby AC Cobra Original Numbers Matching Documented - $2Mil + Factory Five MKII Cobra Rep w/ a Ford 427 - $26K There are a few orders of magnitude difference in price but you get ALL the fun if not more with the Facotry Five MkII Replica (added fun is the abuse your willing to impart due to low cost). Very Nice Post.....!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rionrlty Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 The original Cobra might be a little better than the Factory five, but a Super Performance Cobra is a virtual double to the original only better handling and more driveable. At around $60,000 the difference is still many orders of Magnitude and who in their right mind would drive and abuse a 2 million dollar car? Thanks for your support. rionrlty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indywatchguy Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Great post gents! Glad to be here with like minds. Welcome aboard rionrity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Excellent post. I couldn't agree more with your line of thinking. The Swiss brands have lost nothing from me and in fact, have actually got me to pick up a few of their gens. I think that holds true for most of the membership here. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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