SSTEEL Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I have heard back from my genuine parts supplier that he cannot source a new case set other than from TAG themselves, and at the quoted $1000, I thin I will work on the spare case set I have, and see how I get on with it. Had some free time today, and with a empty house, I set about disassembling the spare Carrera case. First, I wanted to remove the pushers from the rep case, these are held in place with tiny cir clips locking them into place. The construction, and functionality of these compared to the genuine pushers I have is slightly different, but more on that later. Pushers removed first so I could get a press die in there to remove crystal later... A look inside the area of the crown and pushers... Now lets take a look at these pushers in more detail... Rep pushers... (notice the small indented ring, this is where the tiny cir clip locks the pusher into place. Also noticed the small black o-ring. Rep Start/Stop Pusher... Rep Reset Pusher... Now onto the comparison photos. The Genuine Pushers are on the bottom... Genuine with the screw thread... Genuine, Left... Next, I popped out the crystal... Closer look at the crystal gasket, and chapter ring... Removed the crystal gasket, and took some reference photos on which way its fitted... Then I set about removing the bezel/insert. This spare case is the chromed bezel insert model, not the black bezel insert like my franken. I am unsure if the construction of my franken bezel is the same as this one, but looking closely at this thing, the bezel insert, and bezel are one piece of machined stainless steel.. Also removed the chapter ring with the bezel as the chapter ring sits under the bezel... The chapter ring was held in place with 4 x sticky strips. I have also noticed some marking to the case in this area, which looks like its possibly had some correction work done, and marked in the process.. The small hole you see on the edge to the left of the sticky strip is to home the chapter ring centre. Chapter Ring... Rear of Chapter Ring, and the dimple which mates with the hole above mentioned... Some photos of the one piece removed Bezel. Looking closely at this, I cannot see anything that reflects that there is an insert, its all one piece...(looks like theres a lip around the circumference, but this is machined that way... More marks visible on the rear of the bezel, which has to relate to the factory removing, or doing something with this watch prior to marketing/selling. Seems weird... Now a look at the case with the bezel removed... Group shot of dismantled parts... Crystal, and case back put away for safe keeping. Awaiting for genuine crystal measurements at the moment, which will determine whether or not I will be able to fit a genuine crystal in this rep case set or not... Trial fit of a gen pusher, just to check tolerances, and there's quite a difference. The thread slides into the case so far, then stops. Unsure at this point if I will be able to use the gen pushers or not due to the completely different construction, and design used with the rep pushers... Closer look at the hole where the threaded part of the gen pusher stops at. It maybe possible to tap and die this inner area, but then can't see how the gen pusher would work, as its completely different in construction as the rep pusher. The rep pushers have an inner area of the tip of the pushers, which when pushed, the protruding case tubes go into. So that was that for now, need to do some micro work, and measurements regarding the pushers. Photo of disassembled case for reference.. And that it for today. Will up date later once I get the tolerance measurements of the genuine crystal from my supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I guess it's safe to say you're the Authority on all things TAG HEUER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well I don't know about that I do really enjoy this hobby, thats fir sure Something was bugging me about the look of the rep pushers compared to the genuine ones, then it struck me that, with the rep pushers, they were missing a cylinder type area below the push area. This cylinder area is part of the tubes pushed into the rep case. The below photos will explain better. Basically the rep pushers tubes mimic part of the gen pushers, to make the rep look more accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 So how are the tubes fitted in the case, or are they part of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Looking at them, they are bonded into place with some kind of adhesive, so my plan is to remove, measure, cut the cylinder area off, and then tap and die a thread to the inners, screw in the gen pushers, then refit using strong, waterproof adhesive, then onto water resistance testing. Once I get the remainder of my watch equipment. Holidays first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Sounds like a plan mate, enjoy your hols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Wow looks like you have alot of work ahead of you to get this woking. Chrono pushers are a pain in the neck. Good Luck. By hook or by crook, I will get this finished, and working like a pup Sounds like a plan mate, enjoy your hols Yup, cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Update: Got a second Carrera CV2A10 case with black bezel today from a great member over on RWI. It came complete, minus the crystal, which is perfect for what I wanted to check. I can now confirm that the black bezel 43mm Carrera is a different construction than that of the chromed bezel 43mm Carrera. The black bezel insert came out very easily, and is held in place with double sided thin sticky tape, and not snapped into position. Quite happy with this result, as now I know I can go ahead and replace the black insert on my franken with a genuine insert, although I will bond into place with either Hydro Cement of Gorilla Glue. I have confirmed dimensions from my genuine parts supplier of both the crystal, and bezel insert, and its good to go, so will be getting these gen parts soon. Seeing as the Gen case set is a little over $1k, I have enquired about getting just a gen case back. Both the first Carrera donor case, and this second one, even though both are stated on their case backs as CV2A10 Carrera models, I have to say, they looks very slightly different to my franken case. More noticeable in the lug areas, but very minor. On the donor cases, the lug profile is shorter, and not as wide as my franken. I will add photos showing this difference, and also some measurements once my digital calliper is fixed as I broke my lcd. Hope the above info is of some help to you should you be wanting to carry out any similar mods to your Carrera Thanks for reading, photos, and measurements to follow in the next update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I'm watching 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Photos of Genuine Tag Heuer black bezel insert... Measurement of this is 42.7mm. I have measured (with tape measure) my rep insert and its the same. Will measure the rep again once I fix my digital callipers. The gen insert is part of my next gen parts order which consists of.. Bezel Insert Chapter Ring (photos will be posted when I get them) Case Back Crystal Crystal & Case Back gaskets. Will update soon with photo comparisons of the CV2A10 Carrera Rep cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Ive got the black (dlc'ed?) version case if you need that for parts i would be willing to sell it. Is it the 43mm Case Mike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Or check the case back Mike to make sure its CV2A10 model number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) OK, had some more spare time today so got to work with the black bezelled Carrera case. Now you may recall me stating the following earlier about this case.. I can now confirm that the black bezel 43mm Carrera is a different construction than that of the chromed bezel 43mm Carrera. The black bezel insert came out very easily, and is held in place with double sided thin sticky tape, and not snapped into position. Now whilst the above quote is true, the construction is indeed different, this difference being the bezel. I first thought that the black bezelled Carrera case's bezel was fixed, and not removable, but looking closely through my loupe at the outer circumference there was evidence proving otherwise, but was my eyes playing tricks on me I asked myself. Well, after some failed attempts prising the bezel off with a plastic phone tool (intended use for opening phones cases), I then turned my attention to something more suitable, but wondered if I was on a hiding to nothing, and would I screw up the case, resulting it being scrap. I thought sod it, only one way to find out, experiment in the aid of helping others learn My weapon of choice was the case back removal tool for push in case backs, you know the one, looks like a knife. Mine was in the RWG tool kit, and come in handy here, along with the RWG hammer, I lined up the sharp part of the blade into the bezel edge, and tapped it gently with the metal end of the hammer, and off the bezel popped Here's a photo showing the difference in construction between the chromed bezel Carrera (left), and the black bezel Carrera (right). Arty shot A closer look at the chromed bezel case (note: only one hole at 12 inside to home the chapter ring). And next the black bezel case (note: two holes, 1@12 & 1@6). Now to my eye, looking at both these cases, they somehow looks slightly different as mentioned earlier.. Both the first Carrera donor case, and this second one, even though both are stated on their case backs as CV2A10 Carrera models, I have to say, they looks very slightly different to my franken case. More noticeable in the lug areas, but very minor. On the donor cases, the lug profile is shorter, and not as wide as my franken. I will add photos showing this difference, and also some measurements once my digital calliper is fixed as I broke my lcd. Still not had time to fix my digital calliper, so took a few photos in the hope to capture the slight differences in the case profiles. The two donor cases are identical in profile, so in the following photos I used my franken, removing the bracelet one side in a hope to detail these differences.. Franken on top.. I then fitted the case back to the donor case, and took some more photos hoping to show the minute differences. (Just hope its not my eyes playing tricks on me as I am yet to see these photos, only looking at the thumbnails and IMG tags And just a reminder, and a closer look at the two types of Carrera removable bezels. Black insert bezel Black insert bezel on the right Closer look at the two (The chromed bezel insert is not an insert at all, its all one piece, unlike the black bezel insert Carrera).. So that concludes my investigational work on the cases, and now its just a case of fixing my digital calliper, and awaiting delivery of my genuine Tag parts to arrive. Thanks for following Edited July 1, 2013 by SSTEEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Was getting ahead of myself then, what I meant to say, is, next to follow in this thread will be the pushers investigation, which may well lead to some tap, and die work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 My plan is to utilise the rep pusher tubes which are glued into the case, removing them from the case, measuring them, cutting them down to the right size as to accommodate the gen pushers profile, and then tapping the thread into the tubes so far (not all the way through), then screwing in the gen pushers, applying waterproof adhesive in the process, then bonding the tubes back into the case with the appropriate bonding glue. And breath lol. Also to add to my earlier post, the reasoning behind wanting to see if the bezel removed from the case of the black insert case was down to the crystal gasket fitting. I tried to refit the crystal gasket, which itself is pushed into place between the bezel, and chapter ring. I was unsuccessful in refitting the gasket, so I thought that surely the bezel must come off, and if so, refitting my new gasket should be a lot easier, as the gasket is pushed in with the bezel and crystal at the same time. Let me try and explain some key difference between the two cases. With the chromed bezel case, the bezel had to be removed in order to remove the chapter ring. The gasket sits on top of the chapter ring. With the black insert case, after removing the crystal gasket, although the chapter ring came out easily, this was not possible on the chromed version due to the one piece bezel construction, restricting room to pull out the chapter ring. I think you may get the picture now. Sorry if I appeared to make things complicated by possible repeating myself on something that in real life here is quite straight forward to those in the know, and experienced watchmakers/watchsmiths, but I want to explain things in a way for others to learn too. Hope this makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Not got round to the pushers yet, but I fixed my Digital Calliper today so got some finer measurements on a couple of parts. For reference: Genuine Crystal dia: 37mm Replica Crystal dia: 36.95mm Genuine Black Insert dia: 42.75mm Replica Black Insert dia: 42.74mm As you can see, the inserts are very very close, but the crystal difference, whilst small @0.05mm, when working with such small, precise fitting parts, this small 0.05mm is a big deal, and can ultimately halt a project. I will see how I get on when I have the genuine crystal in hand, and also check the gen gasket also. I may need to carry out some milling work, but we shall see. More measurements of other parts in this build to follow soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Some progress to report. Today I removed the small tubes from the battered donor Carrera CV2A10 case which guided and held the rep chronograph pushers in the case. I first heated them up using a soldering iron, and then tapped them out, and out they popped What was interesting once these were removed, they both have tiny O-Rings, which obviously aid water resistance. You can just about see in the photo below.. Photos of case holes now with the tubes removed... Now onto the good news. If you have been following my progress on this build you will recall me planning to tap/die the tubes I just removed so I could screw in the genuine threaded pushers (Red Start/Stop gen pusher pictured above), and then refit/bond the tubes, and gen pushers into the case. After checking the above gen pusher against the hold left in the case after tube removal, I am happy to report, I will no longer need those tubes, the threaded part of the gen pushers are 0.8mm bigger than the holes, so I can now tap the thread directly into the case, thus making a much better water tight fitting. Once done, i will use a bonding agent with PTFE properties. And here's a quick photo of my work bench as I finished work today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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