Whats the difference between a DG3804B & a 2813?

[ceejay]

I am a little confused.

 

I just purchased a supposed DG3804B, it looks different to the 3804 that I purchased from Cousins a while back.

 

But it looks the same as the supposed 2813 that was in my cartel 1655 GMT Explorer I purchased recently?

 

Anyone know if there are any significant differences in these movements?

As I understand, they are both 21,000 with no independant GMT hand setting and virtualy the same size.

 

If anyone can shed some light on my confusion it would be apreciated

[fitmic]

I. have no idea, but perhaps Cousins know the difference?

[kbh]

3804B is a GMT movement and the DG2813 is obviously not. Other than that without pictures of the two movements it's hard to know what the question is.

[ceejay]

3804B is a GMT movement and the DG2813 is obviously not. Other than that without pictures of the two movements it's hard to know what the question is.

 

Seems like it isn't as simple as that.

 

My experiences so far. I bought a Rolex 1655 from PC that came with a 2813 (that is what was advertised) this is a GMT movement.

My build required a 3804B so I bought one from Cousins. Just looking at the Cousins supplied 3804B it was a GMT also but different implimentation of the GMT layout and date change to the 2813.

The 3804B from Cousins has a better quality GMT function and the Date change is much better.

 

I then went and dropped the Cousins 3804B and broke the pinion on the centre seconds wheel. Cousins are out of stock but I found this place http://www.jkhorological.com/sub-category.php?subcat-id=6&start=8

When this 3804B arrived I noticed immidiately it was different to the Cousins supplied 3804B, infact it was the same as the 2813 that I got in my 1655 from PC.

I couldn't use it, so I stripped it and took the centre seconds wheel out and it fitted the exactly into place on the Cousins supplied 3804B...result!

 

So to sum up my findings...

The 3804B & 2813 are similar but have distinct differences. GMT & Date change layout.

The 2813 can be GMT or standard 3 hands, it has a purple coloured wheel on the auto winding bridge, avoid this as it is lesser quality.

The cousins supplied 3804B was the best movement out of the 3 I have.

 

Some companies are supplying a 2813GMT and calling it a 3804B, watch out for the purple wheel on the auto winding bridge. If it has this then it's a 2813...shop elswhere

 

Hope this helps & makes sense?

[kbh]

Interesting. I've owned 3804B's and they seem like decent movements. In fact better than the modified 2836-2 clone GMT movements. But I didn't know about DG2813 GMT movements. They sound like they might be similar to the 2836 GMT's with a couple of extra gears stuck on the front to convert them from 3 to 4 hand.

[PeteM]

I have seen this discussed before on here and elsewhere..mainly in the Rolex sections

 

 

I dont recall anyone actually coming to a conclusion however it was agreed that dealers misdescribed any GMT as a 2813 wherein it was a 3804b...though that aint relevant here.... but what else was discussed was that the 3804b was a purpose built GMT and the 2813 GMT used the day wheel to run the GMT function... there was also something about the hack..

 

Both had same hands as they were both using a miyota sized hands that it was based on..was it the 8125?

 

Sorry I am just repeating what I read.. but one thing I do remember is that there were 3804b and 2813 with reddish transmission wheels which had added to the confusion about what dealers sold as 2813s and 3804bs....

[ceejay]

Thanks for the info Pete. I haven't came across a 3804B with the coloured auto winding wheel yet but as the gear train appears the same on the 2 movements then you will see them no doubt

 

An additional bit of info for reference,

 

The balance cocks on the 2 movements are different and not interchangeable. The balance [censored] on a 2813 has a cutout at the end where the securing screw is. The 3804B does not have this cutout. The locating pins line up ok but the securing screw hole does not.

 

I did take the balance wheel/spring out of one of my 2813's and put it in the 3804B and it works fine

 

This week I will be working on straightening the hairspring of the 3804 after I put a screwdriver through it when regulating it!

[Sms911]

On November 13, 2013 at 4:50 AM, ceejay said:

I am a little confused.

 

I just purchased a supposed DG3804B, it looks different to the 3804 that I purchased from Cousins a while back.

 

But it looks the same as the supposed 2813 that was in my cartel 1655 GMT Explorer I purchased recently?

 

Anyone know if there are any significant differences in these movements?

As I understand, they are both 21,000 with no independant GMT hand setting and virtualy the same size.

 

If anyone can shed some light on my confusion it would be apreciated

Is his the case. You cannot set the gmt hand on the dg3804b?

[haymeadow]

i had the same issue with the seconds pinion, pushed just a little bit to much and it broke, when i questioned my supplier he said many complaints about that over sensitive pinion, the 3804 im working on now starts then stops whenever it wants, this movement is just a pain in the a.. , my first 4 hand build and after making a custom movement ring so it did'nt jump around in the case i thought i was done, but the start and stop is driving me nuts, i replaced the balance [censored] from a parts movement i have and that did'nt solve the problem, anyone else with this problem ?