Movement Beat And Rate Adjustment

[vaccum]

I have read a lot of posts about adjusting the movement beat and rate performed by the watch owners.

Some ask "how do I adjust the speed"...."which lever do I move" and so on. No problem asking for instructions...I have done it many times.

I have seen a few movements, automatic and manual and none of them can be adjusted to the same specs even using the watch timer.

Here is what I can't understand....how someone can say that he/she managed to adjust a movement beat and rate to 1 sec per day without the correct tools ie. watch timer, watch analyzer, etc and just by looking at the seconds hand.

I am not claiming that I know everything...that's why I am asking.

Cheers,

vaccum

[Devedander]

Even harder for me is figuring out how to move that lever in small enough increments to get it really well setup... everytime I try to move it it resists then jumps 1/8 of an inch...

[NRG]

What I think you are reading when somebody says they have 'regulated' to 1 second a day is somebody who really has adjusted the average daily rate to suit the way they use the watch. The users perception is the watch is thus regulated because during his daily usage the watch only gains 1 second.

Actual regulation is way more complex than simply adjusting rate and if you where to take the above watch and test it for absolute rate in a fixed position and compare to another position you would most likely see a big difference between the two.

The watch timer can only measure the watch in fixed positions and will highlight differences and problems between the positions, it makes no allowance for how the watch will be worn. The watchmaker should make reasonable effort to ensure good regulation between the positions but it will be a compromise whatever he tries unless he is aiming for COSC standards which lay down clearly defined parameters for him to meet. Ultimately it is still a compromise.

I guess the skill lays with the watchmaker, those who know what they are doing will ask the customer how they use and wear the watch and so try to adjust it with that usage model in mind...just my 2p/cent's worth...

[vaccum]

What I think you are reading when somebody says they have 'regulated' to 1 second a day is somebody who really has adjusted the average daily rate to suit the way they use the watch. The users perception is the watch is thus regulated because during his daily usage the watch only gains 1 second.

Actual regulation is way more complex than simply adjusting rate and if you where to take the above watch and test it for absolute rate in a fixed position and compare to another position you would most likely see a big difference between the two.

The watch timer can only measure the watch in fixed positions and will highlight differences and problems between the positions, it makes no allowance for how the watch will be worn. The watchmaker should make reasonable effort to ensure good regulation between the positions but it will be a compromise whatever he tries unless he is aiming for COSC standards which lay down clearly defined parameters for him to meet. Ultimately it is still a compromise.

I guess the skill lays with the watchmaker, those who know what they are doing will ask the customer how they use and wear the watch and so try to adjust it with that usage model in mind...just my 2p/cent's worth...

What I like about my MicroSet watch timer is that I can measure the watch movement in different positions ie. dial up, dial down, crown up, crown down, etc and the PC interface program will display an average using the data from all positions and the results are closer to the every day use.

vaccum

[NRG]

Yes, I use the same machine, it's a very powerful feature.

However if the watch wearer stays in one position more than another IE: the user spends a lot of time driving a car, the watch more or less will be in dial up or crown left (left handed wear) position for long periods of time. That one position alone will dominate the average daily rate the wearer experiences. Knowing this allows you to adjust the watch better to suit the wearer.

[vaccum]

Yes, I use the same machine, it's a very powerful feature.

However if the watch wearer stays in one position more than another IE: the user spends a lot of time driving a car, the watch more or less will be in dial up or crown left (left handed wear) position for long periods of time. That one position alone will dominate the average daily rate the wearer experiences. Knowing this allows you to adjust the watch better to suit the wearer.

Now I got your point.

But saying that the movement is adjusted to COSC specs without the correct tools is almost impossible

Here what the COSC site says and I quote

" The results provide a "photographic" image of the rate of a movement at a given moment and certify its intrinsic position.

Nonetheless, due to their severity, these tests are highly selective and only extremely high-quality movements can hope to pass them.

This is therefore an examination based on excellence, even if the behaviour of the movements that are granted certification is still directly dependent on the wearers themselves.

To earn chronometer certification, a movement must not only be made from the highest-quality components, but also the object of special care on the part of the finest watchmakers and timers during assembly."

vaccum

[omega1]

Well, for me, I regulate mine to be accurate while on the wrist.

My daily habits are fairly routine, so this is what I do:

I start with a fully wound watch and sync it to the atomic clock first thing in the morning. I wear it all day long, and even go to sleep with it on.

The next morning I check it against the atomic clock again and make regulation adjustments as needed.

While I cannot say that my watches are to regulated to COSC standards, I can say that all of my mechanical watches gain no more than 1 second per day on my the wrist.

Jim

Edited December 15, 2006 by omega1

[2005SUBMARINER]

with me ETA'S iv gotten to 5 + - .

same with my asian seagull st-25 movement ..

[NRG]

Now I got your point.

But saying that the movement is adjusted to COSC specs without the correct tools is almost impossible

Here what the COSC site says and I quote

" The results provide a "photographic" image of the rate of a movement at a given moment and certify its intrinsic position.

Nonetheless, due to their severity, these tests are highly selective and only extremely high-quality movements can hope to pass them.

This is therefore an examination based on excellence, even if the behaviour of the movements that are granted certification is still directly dependent on the wearers themselves.

To earn chronometer certification, a movement must not only be made from the highest-quality components, but also the object of special care on the part of the finest watchmakers and timers during assembly."

vaccum

True, but I didn't say that! I said the perception the wearer has is the watch has been 'regulated'....which it hasn't....the wearer has merely adjusted the average daily rate that suits his or her wearing habits of the watch.

If a watch meets COSC standards I would expect it to meet those standards no matter who wears the watch or how it is worn....However, it is still a compromise! If you want better accuracy then, dare I say it, buy a quartz!

[NRG]

Well, for me, I regulate mine to be accurate while on the wrist.

.............

While I cannot say that my watches are to regulated to COSC standards, I can say that all of my mechanical watches gain no more than 1 second per day on my the wrist.

Jim

Exactly Jim, This is what most people are doing when adjusting their watch. You are not regulating the watch you are adjusting the average daily rate that suits your usage.

[NRG]

For anybody interested/fascinated by this subject! I can strongly recommend you read these articles by Walt Odets on TZ.

Start here:

http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium0037

And then work your way through part 2.2 and 2.3...

[Pugwash]

Here what the COSC site says and I quote

"Marketing waffle. Remember we're selling this solution so it's in our interest to glorify it."

I agree

[vaccum]

For anybody interested/fascinated by this subject! I can strongly recommend you read these articles by Walt Odets on TZ.

Start here:

http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium0037

And then work your way through part 2.2 and 2.3...

Good info!

vaccum

[gioarmani]

Works for me-I've got (now) six Etas (2836 & 2671) all synched with each other, almost to second. The way I do mine is like this:

1) Open the digital clock on your computer.

2) Remove the case-back

3) Stop the second hand on the watch by pulling the crown out to the time-set position, to activate the hacking movement (stop the second hand directly at the twelve o'clock position).

4) Then roll the minute hand forward to where it will be, one minute from now.

5) When the digital second hand on the computer reaches 12 o'clock, push the crown back in so the watch & the computer's clock are now synched to the exact hour, minute & second.

6) Put the watch on a winder for a night & compare your watch to the computer's clock after 24 hours to see how far off they are.

7) Pop the caseback. For example, if the watch is now fast by 10 seconds per 24 hours, simply adjust the screw so that it loses 10 seconds for every 24 hours; alternatively, do the opposite, if it's slow by 10 seconds. (old photo for something else, so ignore A & B )

Each notch towards "+" represents a 5 second gain per 24 hours. Each notch towards "-" represents a 5 second loss per 24 hrours. Adjust accordingly

Now repeat steps 3-7, to test it's accuracy. This should be perfected after a couple of days.

I technically have no way to measure the movement's beat-rate via electronics or machinery, but don't really care about that, as long as the watch is keeping near-perfect time.

I've now got four synched automatic watches that are so precise, I can literally watch the second hand roll over the 12 o''clock position at the very second when the time on my cell phone changes minutes. They're damn near almost exact as digital or quartz watches now.

Note: Depending on what position you store your automatic watch in, will play a role in determining how many seconds it gains or loses every night--this is why I keep them on a winder, so that they are constantly moving and not at rest (in the same position).

If you lay an automatic watch flat & level (with the crystal facing up), it will usually gain a couple of seconds per night. If you lay the watch on its side (with the crown facing down) it will lose a second or two per night. Contrarily, if it's stored on its side (crown facing up), it will generally lose 2 seconds--or more--per night.

[omega1]

Note: Depending on what position you store your automatic watch in, will play a role in determining how many seconds it gains or loses every night--this is why I keep them on a winder, so that they are constantly moving and not at rest (in the same position).

This brings up an interesting point. If you have them regulated to keep perfect time with your PC clock while on a winder, do you notice any difference in time keeping when on the wrist?

I don't have a winder (yet), but here is my thought on it. I would think that on the wrist, the "winder regulated" watch may run a bit slower. The reason is that your body heat warms up the parts, thus thinning out the viscosity of the oils. This allows or ensures the balance wheel to make its full swing, which would make the time keeping slower then at room temperature.

Have you ever noticed anything like that?

Jim

[gioarmani]

No; the winder simulates the movement of the wrist, not only to turn the rotor, but also to constantly change positions to keep them out of the afore mentioned ones for prolonged periods of time. I'm not an expert, but I don't think what modicum of body heat the movement receives is enough to change the viscosity of watch-oil.