Problem with yuki 3135 GMT conversion

[panerai153]

Just thought I would chime in here and ask a few questions and some observations about the yuki converted to GMT.
First off, I have one of these in my franken 116710. I am a big, big fan of GMT's. I believe that for those folks who travel., they are very handy watches. If you are crossing several time zones, they are to me and essential piece of equipment. It is alway good to know what your home time is as well as the local time. I have several GMT's that are based on the ETA 2893-2 movement. These are very good, stable rugged movements, however they lack one essential element, the ability to set the time forward or back without stopping the movement. There are only a few movements that have that capacity, the Ulysse Nardin +\- Big date and the Rolex GMT's starting with the 16710. There are others, however I don't have any personal experience with them.
For those of us who have decided to go the rep route, the yuki 3135 conversion looked to be a very viable alternative. Because the price to build a very good franken was less than half the price of a used Rolex 16710 or 116710, that was the route I chose. The problem is there are some movement limitations to this build which is what I want to discuss. Mike (misiekped) built a converted movement for me, based on the yuki 3135 and gen parts for the conversion. Mike adds gen parts where he believes the yuki parts are weak. After my watch was completed, it did fine for quite a while. I'm not one who does a lot of fooling around with setting time, GMT time, etc. however after a while, I discovered that the GMT setting (hour hand) could only be advanced forward, not back. I contacted Mike, he promptly fixed it and sent it back, but with this warning. There is a problem with moving the hour hand back with the yuki movement, and he advised me to either not or very sparing move the hour hand backwards. While this is fine if you are traveling east, as you would move the hour hand forward, but when you travel west, you need to move the hour hand back, which is what creates the problem. So my question here is what is the solution to this? Is it possible to teplace more parts in the yuki movement with genuine, or have we reached a plateau where every conceivable modification has been made and we just need to live with the weaknesses? This is a fantastic watch, lots and lots of genuine parts, but this problem really concerns me as it decreases the utility of the watch when traveling. Because this watch lacks a quickset date, I leave it on a wonder when not in use, so that is not a big problem. I just wish that there was some way to make this movement as reliable when setting the hour hand back as well as forward.
I know that this is not a genuine Rolex movement, but it sure would be nice if it worked better.
 
 
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[misiekped]

A
I already found the getaway
Sliding and winding pinions has to be gen
The problem with yuki and gen parts is the rep and gen are not the same quality and they giving up sometimes


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[TickleShoes]

A
I already found the getaway
Sliding and winding pinions has to be gen
The problem with yuki and gen parts is the rep and gen are not the same quality and they giving up sometimes


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Agreed. Winding and sliding pinions fixed it on mine. Also a gen or newer Yuki cam yoke for date will hold the jewel perfectly. Goes back and forth perfectly. Even reverses the date wheel backwards.

[panerai153]

Wow!! Thanks guys. Fast accurate facts to help folks here increase their knowledge base.


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[jigelow]

11 hours ago, TickleShoes said:

 

Agreed. Winding and sliding pinions fixed it on mine. Also a gen or newer Yuki cam yoke for date will hold the jewel perfectly. Goes back and forth perfectly. Even reverses the date wheel backwards.

 

 

That was the last piece I got to two years ago on mine trying to figure out what needed to be replaced. Replaced the jumper, spring, finger, then finally the yoke and jewel. 

[TickleShoes]

 
That was the last piece I got to two years ago on mine trying to figure out what needed to be replaced. Replaced the jumper, spring, finger, then finally the yoke and jewel. 

The newest Yuki/SH3135 parts are improved enough to work. The post for the jewel is taller and goes all the way up the jewel. The old one was only half-height so it would pop out. (New on the left, not that you can see the jewel post)



It's also squared off from milling vs the older rounded stamped piece, so the spring holds it better.

Also, just an FYI - the Startime/Swiss sliding and winding pinions work as well.

[DC109]

One other thing to consider: the real genius of a GMT is that you don't have to set the hour to change your second time at all.  Why not just use the bezel?  Remember these were invented for pilots who changed time zones often enough that they needed a way to avoid not only the hassle, but also wear and tear on the movement, crown and tube of resetting their watch with every trip.  To each their own, but to me, using the independent hour hand instead of the bezel to change your second time defeats the purpose.

[panerai153]

One other thing to consider: the real genius of a GMT is that you don't have to set the hour to change your second time at all.  Why not just use the bezel?  Remember these were invented for pilots who changed time zones often enough that they needed a way to avoid not only the hassle, but also wear and tear on the movement, crown and tube of resetting their watch with every trip.  To each their own, but to me, using the independent hour hand instead of the bezel to change your second time defeats the purpose.

 

That is certainly and option, and with the older Rolex GMT's that was the only option as the GMT hand was not adjustable. Pilots didn't have a choice, they had to use the bezel as the means of determining the 2nd zone time.That's the way I get the 2nd Zone time with my gen 16750. I've got two other GMT's that use the ETA 2893-2 movement and they are fine, and if you use the hour hand for home time and the GMT hand as the 2nd Zone time, you are able to adjust the GMT hand without stopping the movement, sort of like moving the Hour hand on the newer Rolex GMT's. Problem there is you can only move the GMT hand in one direction, whereas the newer ones have the bi-directional hour hand.

To answer your question, sometimes I'm out sure whether new innovations are really solving a problem, or they are introduced and then the PR folks invent a problem! Sort of like and expression we use in medicine, a solution looking for a problem, rather than a problem looking for a solution. When the 16710 came out, I was not that impressed, as I really wasn't convinced that having a bi-directional setting hour hand was worth the loss of the quickset date feature. Honestly, unless you wear these watches every day or use a winder when you aren't, the non quickset date is a pain. For the casual user, there are some advantages. It doesn't take any calculation to figure out what the new time is at your destination. When you have to use your bezel, you have to do a tiny bit of figuring to decide which way it needs to turn. Certainly not a problem with pilots that fly pretty much the same routes routinely. Another problem, with some of the very old Rolex watches, they used a friction fit bezel rather than one with a click spring. These over time tended to get looser and it was entirely possible to have the bezel move in either direction. Of course the advent of click springs or detects in some cases solved that problem.

So to answer your question, I'm not sure there is a valid answer, except that watch companies invent some new "improvement", market the hell out of it and are able to convince a large segment of the buying public that they can't live without it. I believe that no matter which GMT you own, be it and old style "tracking GMT", adjustable GMT hand or the adjustable hour hand, you learn to operate it and become comfortable with it. All have positives and negatives related to their utility, sort of depends on what you have or like. And, whether you are sort of old school or one who has to have the latest and greatest whether it's actually any better or not.

 

 

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[panerai153]

Just an update. Got my 116710 back today from maestro Mike. As usual, he did a superb job changing out the parts that needed as well as the reversing wheels and a ratchet wheel with genuine which corrected the rough winding. Mine is working like a genuine now. Regulated to COSC specs as well. I'm a happy camper now, got my favorite back on my wrist.


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