Vintage Omega

[aj76]

Hi, folks! Decided to take the plunge on the rabbit hole that is Vintage Omegas. Still learning much about this corner of watch collecting and was wondering if i could get your thoughts on this piece i'm thinking of getting:

 

 

These are the specifications on the sellers posting:

Vintage Omega Seamaster De Ville cal. 601

Price: USD375

- fresh manual wind cal 601 movement

- fresh champagne dial and hands

- omega signed crown

- keeps good time

- brand new AF Swiss crystal (only part of the watch changed apart from strap)

- black vintage style leather strap

- case 35mm

 

What do you folks think? Does the watch look genuine all bits and worth the price? The seller hasn't opened it so no way to check the movement accdg. to him.

 

Thanks!

 

[mkennesonj]

Looks good to me! $375 is fair.


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[Timelord]

3 hours ago, aj76 said:

Hi, folks! Decided to take the plunge on the rabbit hole that is Vintage Omegas. Still learning much about this corner of watch collecting and was wondering if i could get your thoughts on this piece 

 

What do you folks think? Does the watch look genuine all bits and worth the price? The seller hasn't opened it so no way to check the movement accdg. to him.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Hello

 

and welcome!!  The timepiece you are contemplating seems all legit to me!!!  I have had a few of them myself in the automatic caliber 552 and 562 for this type of case.  You have what is known as a monocoque case or a front loader which is a one piece case where the movement and dial come out from the front. The DeVille Seamasters were cased in North America like the LeCoultre representing JL and these cases were made there under license by their parent Swiss companies or made for them.  L&K was one American company that specialized in case making under license from Switzerland to avoid import taxes on complete imported watches.

These one piece cases were quite popular back in the 1960's as it was an attempt to make the watch more water resistant which was not such a success.  That is because most of the problem was through the crown and these have what we know as a split stem system where the stem is made of two clipped in pieces which holds it together.  The reason why your seller was unable to open the watch is that it is something which not every layman is able to expose the movement without having the crystal removed and removing the dial with movement from the case for a complete movement inspection ( of course after removing the stem).  It took me quite a few years of amateur watch skills to reach this level.   One good thing about them if any good came from these cases.  As for faking these, I am not sure who would be so brave to go to that effort only to make a few dollars if any??  so your gamble would be quite safe.  The generic crystal can present problems if the tension ring is not the correct geometry for this case as  dial should sit correctly with the  bevel section of the tension ring!  As for the price it is ok, but you could do better in getting an automatic version for the same price or for a few dollars more, depending on your tastes!!  Good luck with your quest!!!!.

[aj76]

4 hours ago, mkennesonj said:

Looks good to me! $375 is fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thank you kindly!

1 hour ago, Timelord said:

 

Hello

 

and welcome!!  The timepiece you are contemplating seems all legit to me!!!  I have had a few of them myself in the automatic caliber 552 and 562 for this type of case.  You have what is known as a monocoque case or a front loader which is a one piece case where the movement and dial come out from the front. The DeVille Seamasters were cased in North America like the LeCoultre representing JL and these cases were made there under license by their parent Swiss companies or made for them.  L&K was one American company that specialized in case making under license from Switzerland to avoid import taxes on complete imported watches.

These one piece cases were quite popular back in the 1960's as it was an attempt to make the watch more water resistant which was not such a success.  That is because most of the problem was through the crown and these have what we know as a split stem system where the stem is made of two clipped in pieces which holds it together.  The reason why your seller was unable to open the watch is that it is something which not every layman is able to expose the movement without having the crystal removed and removing the dial with movement from the case for a complete movement inspection ( of course after removing the stem).  It took me quite a few years of amateur watch skills to reach this level.   One good thing about them if any good came from these cases.  As for faking these, I am not sure who would be so brave to go to that effort only to make a few dollars if any??  so your gamble would be quite safe.  The generic crystal can present problems if the tension ring is not the correct geometry for this case as  dial should sit correctly with the  bevel section of the tension ring!  As for the price it is ok, but you could do better in getting an automatic version for the same price or for a few dollars more, depending on your tastes!!  Good luck with your quest!!!!.

 

Hey there!

 

Thanks and thanks so much for the elaboration. This was such an interesting read - deeper into the rabbit hole we go! The history of the logistics and the monocoque case (and it's failure) are all so alluring.

 

May i know what kind of signs i would have to look out for if the generic crystal's not put on properly - how would i know if it is or not and what would be the effect?

 

Finally, just to clarify, it's not a frankenwatch by the looks of it, right? Been looking for a manual wound one specifically, actually!

 

Thank you so much.

 

[Timelord]

9 hours ago, aj76 said:

 

May i know what kind of signs i would have to look out for if the generic crystal's not put on properly - how would i know if it is or not and what would be the effect?

 

Finally, just to clarify, it's not a frankenwatch by the looks of it, right?

 

 

 

You might find the link below regarding generic crystals helpful, especially responses 3, 11 & 13;

 

https://omegaforums.net/threads/crystal-replacement-omega-or-generic.35560/#post-402236

 

As a Franken watch it is highly unlikely, as most omega parts for each vintage line are pretty much for those models apart from the movements.  I had NOS case, seamaster 165.002 with movement and all the NOS parts but no dial.  It was nearly impossible for me to fit any other NOS dials of same diameter to complete the watch as the movement and stem aperture did not line up.  Especially Geneve dials were different again!  I hate to admit it, but some of those vintage omegas were very under rated and I even like some of the models better than most other brands!.  A very refined desiign where my favourites were the chunky case bumper winds from the early  1950s 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Timelord
Typo grammar errors

[aj76]

2 hours ago, Timelord said:

 

 

You might find the link below regarding generic crystals helpful, especially responses 3, 11 & 13;

 

https://omegaforums.net/threads/crystal-replacement-omega-or-generic.35560/#post-402236

 

As a Franken watch it is highly unlikely, as most omega parts for each vintage line are pretty much for those models apart from the movements.  I had NOS case, seamaster 165.002 with movement and all the NOS parts but no dial.  It was nearly impossible for me to fit any other NOS dials of same diameter to complete the watch as the movement and stem aperture did not line up.  Especially Geneve dials were different again!  I hate to admit it, but some of those vintage omegas were very under rated and I even like some of the models better than most other brands!.  A very refined desiign where my favourites were the chunky case bumper winds from the early  1950s 

 

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I see! Uh-huh, uh-huh, got this! Thank you!

 

Just 1 last thing, if that's alright:

 

I got additional pictures and the hands look really black:

 

whereas while researching the same model, this is the one i saw:

 

 

The prospective piece i'm thinking of getting has really black hands - would you happen to know if that's an effect of oxidization by age? There looks like a thin sliver of silver in the minute hand (which, if they're the same watch, it used to be black...? (weird)) while the hour hand is completely black.

 

Again, thank you for the knowledge and kindness.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by aj76

[Timelord]

28 minutes ago, aj76 said:

 

I see! Uh-huh, uh-huh, got this! Thank you!

 

Just 1 last thing, if that's alright:

 

The prospective piece i'm thinking of getting has really black hands - would you happen to know if that's an effect of oxidization by age? There looks like a thin sliver of silver in the minute hand (which, if they're the same watch, it used to be black...? (weird)) while the hour hand is completely black.

 

Again, thank you for the knowledge and kindness.

 

 

 

I claim to be no expert on this subject and can only share my observations over the last 41 years from the very first time I held my first omega in my hands.   Others here have also a great eye for  this and I can assure you are far wiser and nicer than some members on some of the genuine forums.

 

The hands appear as if they have been repainted over to offset the falling lume as a quickie to fix the deterioration.  It is hard to see from my screen, but I would not worry too much about hands as they can be replaced.   You would be surprised what you can still get new on ebay, but the market is drying up since omega spare parts department have decided to make our lives miserable in cutting supply".  Sorry  that I cannot be  much help on this matter!!

[aj76]

54 minutes ago, Timelord said:

 

I claim to be no expert on this subject and can only share my observations over the last 41 years from the very first time I held my first omega in my hands.   Others here have also a great eye for  this and I can assure you are far wiser and nicer than some members on some of the genuine forums.

 

The hands appear as if they have been repainted over to offset the falling lume as a quickie to fix the deterioration.  It is hard to see from my screen, but I would not worry too much about hands as they can be replaced.   You would be surprised what you can still get new on ebay, but the market is drying up since omega spare parts department have decided to make our lives miserable in cutting supply".  Sorry  that I cannot be  much help on this matter!!

 

Humble yet helpful! Been quite very informative on my end. You've addressed concerns leading up to my first buy. Thank you.

 

Ahhh, what a bummer! Would've been fun to tinker around with NOS pieces. I've found a seller of hands so might try them out http://www.ofrei.com/page864.html

 

I'm good to proceed now. So, again, thanks very much!

 

[Timelord]

1 hour ago, aj76 said:

 

I'm good to proceed now. So, again, thanks very much!

 

 

Glad that you now have some direction in this! Hopefully your seller should give you a grace period for you to see it n the flesh and have any doubts  eradicated! 

 

if it helps further, from the image you have posted I am inclined to wager that your reference model number is 135.0010 with manual caliber 601!   It is likely to be a mid 1960's vintage  Good luck with it and enjoy your outcome to good health!

[HaydenM]

Personally I'd be pretty cautious with any crosshair dial omega Seamaster's but that's just me. They are more often than not redials which can open up a whole bundle of issues. What's the seller location?

[aj76]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:01 PM, Timelord said:

 

Glad that you now have some direction in this! Hopefully your seller should give you a grace period for you to see it n the flesh and have any doubts  eradicated! 

 

if it helps further, from the image you have posted I am inclined to wager that your reference model number is 135.0010 with manual caliber 601!   It is likely to be a mid 1960's vintage  Good luck with it and enjoy your outcome to good health!

 

Thank you for this!

 

I got the watch already 2 days ago and i took some time to wear and examine it before getting back to you folks.

 

So it looks the same as the picture but as i was examining it, the bezel popped off (there were some dried substances around the edges between bezel and case) - apparently the bezel was pasted on with some mix of epoxy. Not sure if this is because of the acrylic but the seller mentioned i could just get some epoxy to stick it back. Or Mighty Bond / Super duper glue if i have no plans of opening it up to the movement.

 

 

The accuracy was stated to be +/- 15 seconds a day but came to around to 36 seconds instead. So i'll be returning it due to this reason.

 

Off to searching again. Found some ones now and considering maybe these:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-Seamaster-Deville-Round-Hand-winding-Leather-Belt-Mens-Watch-490435/254338261095?hash=item3b37bde067:g:7vwAAOSw5uxdX03l

 

or

 

https://www.omegaenthusiastltd.com/product-page/1963-omega-seamaster-30-2

 

 

 

 

 

On 10/9/2019 at 8:48 PM, HaydenM said:

Personally I'd be pretty cautious with any crosshair dial omega Seamaster's but that's just me. They are more often than not redials which can open up a whole bundle of issues. What's the seller location?

 

Do you mean it's a different dial placed on this case (franken) or the dial was edited (lines painted on)?

 

How would one know if it's a 'redial'?

 

Seller is in the Philippines!

[aj76]

 

These are also ones i'm considering though i am wondering about the inconsistent onyx application.

 

 

[horologist]

On 11 October 2019 at 10:19 PM, aj76 said:

 

These are also ones i'm considering though i am wondering about the inconsistent onyx application.

 

 

 

I am not so sure if those dials look right?  Maybe it is me or perhaps the photograph! Someone with a sharper eye may prove me wrong!

is seller also in Philippines?   I would hold on for now and just be patient until something better comes along.  If I were buying a manual wind omega of that vintage, I would buy the one with the sub dial as they seem to hold their value more especially the oversized 37mm ones.  I must admit that those oversized subdial  models look very classy!

[aj76]

On 10/12/2019 at 10:48 PM, horologist said:

 

I am not so sure if those dials look right?  Maybe it is me or perhaps the photograph! Someone with a sharper eye may prove me wrong!

is seller also in Philippines?   I would hold on for now and just be patient until something better comes along.  If I were buying a manual wind omega of that vintage, I would buy the one with the sub dial as they seem to hold their value more especially the oversized 37mm ones.  I must admit that those oversized subdial  models look very classy!

 

Yes, that's also what i was wondering with the dials! Hmmm. The seller is from Sweden, i think! 

 

Thank you for the advice. I have heard and read as well that the sub dial is somehow more in demand and fetches a higher price. 

 

Thank you so much and i think i'll take your advice to heart and evaluate more models to increase chances of getting one that sticks.