Can you remove/replace the clutch spring/pusher of 703 crown?

[RickFlorida]

I have a genuine 703 crown that I want to use.  But the very first internal thread that goes onto the tube has it's first .1 or .2mm deformed.  The entire rest of the thread looks fine so it's a shame to throw away or never use.  (It will not screw onto tubes, even brand new tubes that I have tried due to that deformed first .1 or .2mm of thread).

 

I saw online that a jeweler says he sometimes uses a lathe or a file to remove some of the first thread to use the crown.  This crown I have is a perfect candidate but to me, there is not a good way to deburr that beginning of the thread without removing the clutch spring pusher.  Can it be removed or are these permanently pressed in or something?  I don't understand how they are constructed.  With a ultra small lathe tool, I suppose you can deburr without removing the clutch spring pusher. But with a file, you need more room I think.

 

Thanks for any advice.

Rick

[RickFlorida]

I found this fantastic image but it doesn't really how how the larger tube in installed on the crown.  It says the smaller part (piston clutch ring) is soldered to the sleeve of the crown. But it doesn't say how the largest tube on the crown is secured to the crown. Is that larger part pressed fit, soldered, or screwed in?

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by RickFlorida

[freddy333]

The crown cap actually unscrews from the piston. If you remove the winding stem & clamp the piston in a pin vice, you can unscrew the cap. This is generally done to replace a broken crown spring or piston clutch ring (if the crown spins free when winding, it may be due to the inner flats of the clutch ring being rounded). I posted an illustrated tutorial on the process many years ago that you may be able to search out.

 

Found it! Click me

[RickFlorida]

Thank you so much Freddy!  Holy crap I love you for this.      Your pictures and explanation are perfect, I see it is indeed threaded so I can remove it, then I can deburr or remove the very first part of the thread, then put it all back together with a new gasket.

 

Thanks!

[freddy333]

6 hours ago, RickFlorida said:

Thanks!

 

You are very welcome. I am glad you found the info useful.

 

Back in the day, RWG really was THE central repository of cutting-edge watchmaking creativity. Unfortunately, as is often the case, that creativity was eclipsed by its own success as many of the labor-intensive, community-aided technological breakthroughs eventually trickled down into many of the average reps you can buy today. There was alot of talent -- much of which was spurred on by the very competitive nature of the no-nonsense engineering wizards RWG attracted back then.

[RickFlorida]

Just for a follow up....I would definitely only recommend using a pin vise instead of crushing the tube with a large vise unless you intend to not reuse the part that is getting crushed.  I would think it's almost impossible not to deform that part if you use a large benchtop vise.  

[automatico]

 

"Just for a follow up....I would definitely only recommend using a pin vise instead of crushing the tube with a large vise unless you intend to not reuse the part that is getting crushed."

 

Good advice.

I use a collet in an old 8mm 'watchmaker' lathe.  The collets are made in .1mm steps and are high precision so they will not slip and damage the crown post.  Most hobby guys do not have one but most old timer repair guys do and many will let you use the lathe for 5 minutes to unscrew a crown post.  You do not use any electrical power, you just snug the crown post in the proper collet with the drawbar and back the crown cap off with your fingers while holding the lathe pulley with the other hand.  If the crown cap is too tight, wrap the cap with leather or something to protect the finish and use pliers etc.

 

Clean the parts and use a new crown cap gasket.  Old style crowns with steel or gold 'bottle caps' are usually made of nickel silver and are pretty soft so the threads are easy to damage.

I usually try to apply a smidgen of Loctite to the threads where the post screws into the cap but my guess is it does not do much good if it gets mixed up with lube etc.  For this reason I run a very small amount of oil down into the crown post between the telescoping part that screws on the stem and the crown post...after the Loctite has had time to set.  I've had a few come unscrewed so I went to Loctite.  It seems to help.

 

I always worried about new crown cap gaskets because they just flop around between the end of the case tube and crown cap.  They can get crosseyed and damaged but usually they stay put.  I tried to cement a few to the crown cap with sticky gasket goo but it made a mess so I gave up on it.

It's just something else to worry about...and another reason to wear a G-Shock.   

[RickFlorida]

On 4/11/2021 at 4:08 PM, automatico said:

 

"Just for a follow up....I would definitely only recommend using a pin vise instead of crushing the tube with a large vise unless you intend to not reuse the part that is getting crushed."

 

Good advice.

I use a collet in an old 8mm 'watchmaker' lathe.  The collets are made in .1mm steps and are high precision so they will not slip and damage the crown post.  Most hobby guys do not have one but most old timer repair guys do and many will let you use the lathe for 5 minutes to unscrew a crown post.  You do not use any electrical power, you just snug the crown post in the proper collet with the drawbar and back the crown cap off with your fingers while holding the lathe pulley with the other hand.  If the crown cap is too tight, wrap the cap with leather or something to protect the finish and use pliers etc.

 

Clean the parts and use a new crown cap gasket.  Old style crowns with steel or gold 'bottle caps' are usually made of nickel silver and are pretty soft so the threads are easy to damage.

I usually try to apply a smidgen of Loctite to the threads where the post screws into the cap but my guess is it does not do much good if it gets mixed up with lube etc.  For this reason I run a very small amount of oil down into the crown post between the telescoping part that screws on the stem and the crown post...after the Loctite has had time to set.  I've had a few come unscrewed so I went to Loctite.  It seems to help.

 

I always worried about new crown cap gaskets because they just flop around between the end of the case tube and crown cap.  They can get crosseyed and damaged but usually they stay put.  I tried to cement a few to the crown cap with sticky gasket goo but it made a mess so I gave up on it.

It's just something else to worry about...and another reason to wear a G-Shock.   

Thank you for the specific advice!  I tried it this morning with some quality pin vices and I have a very nice 3 jawed chuck that is precision made for my jewelry equipment (I make jewelry as a hobby), but the large tube we are trying to remove that goes into the crown would not come off.  Are these reverse threaded by any chance?  And they are in fact threaded into the crown? I have a  genuine 703 and not the older crown in the original tutorial. I assume they are similar construction.  But I wonder if 703 and 704 come with threadlocker on that part from the factory so I will use some heat next. But I thought I better ask if they are cross threaded and if we are certain that large tube is not soldered onto the crown.

[automatico]

"Are these reverse threaded by any chance?"

 

They are standard right hand thread...righty-tighty, lefty-loosie. 

 

"And they are in fact threaded into the crown?"

 

Every crown I have taken apart was the older type with 'bottle caps' crimped over the crown frame and the crown post always unscrewed from the crown.  They might have thread locker of some type on them because some were hard to get apart and I did give up on getting a few to come apart. 

Heating the crown cap might help but it could damage the clutch spring.  

 

"But I thought I better ask if they are cross threaded and if we are certain that large tube is not soldered onto the crown."

 

The threads always look good after taking one apart and I doubt any are soldered but you never know.  Most of what I took apart were 5.3 and 6.0mm crowns. 

I bought a few 7mm crowns from TC and they all had weak springs but I never took one apart to change springs.  I thought maybe a spring from a spring bar might work, just never tied it.  They were very well made but after a few screw ups and screw downs the spring in the crown would get too weak to overcome the set lever spring and the watch would not go from setting position to winding position.  You had to flip the crown a few times like flipping a kid on the head to get their attention.

That will probably get you 20 years hard time for 'child abuse' now.  Crown abuse is still Ok afaik.   

[RickFlorida]

6 minutes ago, automatico said:

 

 

Every crown I have taken apart was the older type with 'bottle caps' crimped over the crown frame and the crown post always unscrewed from the crown.  They might have thread locker of some type on them because some were hard to get apart and I did give up on getting a few to come apart. 

Heating the crown cap might help but it could damage the clutch spring.  

 

 

Ah, very good point that heating the crown to loosen what I think is threadlocker present may ruin the clutch spring. And we can't buy or find the separate parts for rolex crowns so the only good decision is to try and unscrews it without heating it. Thanks for thinking of that.  My last question is this...... When you guys say to use the pin vise on the crown post, are you guys just crimping the skinnier post that the stems actually screw into and I have to lock that down and then unscrew? I thought I should be crimping down on the larger/fatter tube that the up and down piston that you screw the stem slides in and out of.  Judging by the pictures of the tutorial, the larger tube seems to directly screw into the back of the crown.

[RickFlorida]

Well the good news is that I didn't ruin the clutch spring by using heat. I just used force.  The bad news is that the larger tube completely sheared off and torn (is destroyed).  I don't think it was threaded in at all. I think it was soldered in or pressed in.  I am also not 100% sure this is a 703.  Is the 704 maybe soldered in?    The crown came on a very nice genuine 1520 rolex movement from a professional watchmaker.  But he used it as a "dummy crown" since the threads were bad.  I will have to buy a new crown now but at least the crown was already bad before I made it worse.

[freddy333]

10 hours ago, RickFlorida said:

Well the good news is that I didn't ruin the clutch spring by using heat. I just used force.  The bad news is that the larger tube completely sheared off and torn (is destroyed).  I don't think it was threaded in at all. I think it was soldered in or pressed in.  I am also not 100% sure this is a 703.  Is the 704 maybe soldered in?    The crown came on a very nice genuine 1520 rolex movement from a professional watchmaker.  But he used it as a "dummy crown" since the threads were bad.  I will have to buy a new crown now but at least the crown was already bad before I made it worse.

I have never seen a Rolex crown that was soldered or cemented together by the factory (the one in Switzerland). However, anything is possible in the hands of a (for profit) watchmaker.

[RickFlorida]

It was difficult to be sure but when the tube sheared off, it sheared off exactly flush to where it was inserted deeper into the back of the crown. So however it is attached, it's strong as hell.   I wonder if the crown was not genuine but one of those high quality aftermarket 703's?   Anyone have experience taking apart those?   Just curious.   I'll just replace it.  I see used 703 crowns for like 60 to 80 bucks.  I'm not happy with the crown tube of the Athaya 702. It's very flimsy and has less gaskets than a 703 tube.  But I do think the Athaya 702 crown itself looks great and I currently use one on a watch. But the first time I ever saw a 703 tube and the way it looks and feels, I'm much more impressed with this construction.

[freddy333]

Rick - You can buy Swiss-made crown tubes from most of the watch parts houses (Ofrei, etc.)  & they are functionally, if not literally, the same as Rolex's. Same metal, same function, same lifespan & same feel.
Many watchmakers with Rolex parts accounts use them.

[RickFlorida]

Sorry I meant the tube that is part of the crown that holds the stem piston/clutch spring.  But thank you .  Yeah the generic 703 case tubes are identical to genuine.  I was trying to save this crown and meant the tube that is part of crown that holds the stem piston is destroyed.  No loss as the crown was already buggered.  

[freddy333]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:21 PM, RickFlorida said:

Sorry I meant the tube that is part of the crown that holds the stem piston/clutch spring.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Unfortunately, I have never seen individual Rolex crown components for sale. I suspect this is because when the internals wear out, Rolex always replaces the entire crown/tube assembly.