6205 Submariner- "Tropical Delight."

[JSebWC]

" so you like Pina coladas, and getting caught in the rain......"

 

Pour yourself a drink and settle in for the build story...

 

So as some of you may know, I am not a sub guy, but then built a 5513 a few months back and now I think that is starting to change.   I  have always admired the early subs but never got around to building one....well that day finally came. 

 

Raffles released a new tropical dial for the 6205  so I added it to my last order with a 6538 case set .

(check the forum for my earlier tropical explorer build thread) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Parts arrived and I was very pleased with the fit and finish of the case set and the dial.  value for the money is quite high with these parts from raffles.  machining on the case is great.  Yes the bezel still has the wire retaining spring but overall very impressed ,  I asked raffles if a 6mm crown  would fit the tube on the case and he said no, but it sure does.  no issues. saves me alot of work swapping tubes. 

the crystal  popped out no problem ( no glue) and it has a gasket , which was a bit of a surprise.  I wonder if a Clarks T19 would fit on this case without a gasket.  may be something worth trying. 

 

Anyway I started off by aging the case set.   dulled the polished sides and added a few dents and scratches.. decided to stop here,  wanted warn and used and old looking  but not over the top.  I can always do more, but its really hard to go back if go too far.. you will see how I prove that later on . 

 

 

Used an Asian 2824 clone with a modified setting lever for 2 positions and removed the date wheel.  I like these clone movements because they are lower beat than gens.   they beat around 21800 and have a bit of a choppy sweep,   The keyless is a PITA as many of you know...

 

Aged the lume a bit with some brown air brush paints to break up the evenness of the lume colour and give it some depth.  installed the dial and hands and was in the home stretch and then noticed that the keyless was out of wack.  no biggie, since becoming proficient in fixing the keyless , its just an extra step so I stripped it down , fixed it and reinstalled the dial and hands , checked the alignment of the hands and not noticing that the dial was not completed seated flat against the movement,  the hour hand puts a nice scratch on the dial!  DOH!    armature bone head move  glad it was only a 35 dollar dial and not a one off Vietnam piece.....   anyway  , since it stuck out like soar thumb.  I decided to take the ageing further on the dial with some water damage and gave the dial a "spritz " of the same brown paint.   it disguised the scratch quite well and was less obvious so It worked out..

Gently faded the bezel but it needed to go further with this ,  it looked more like a tire, because of the contrast between it and the dial.... but this past week was filled with obstacles... work, coming down with the sniffles,  -30 temps and a dead car battery all added to it

 

Anyway.  made it to my studio so that I can continue the ageing of the case.  I  brassed the bezel which I knew was mandatory   and was very happy with how that came out , so I headed back to the lab to get this build complete. 

 

DIAL:

Back to the dial ,  since I had already scratch it  , I figured I would experiment a bit so I tried adding some dry paints to give it a bit of a faded appearance..., wasn't there so then I gave it a quick spritz with some vinegar and popped it in the oven around 275-300 for a few mins and this was the result.    The lume darkened,  and the vinegar damaged the print in a few spots, but the paint masked it so it looks just like  movement grease and dirt...so not a total disaster!! ?  not what I was after but again, better than a new looking dial with a scratch on it , for a 70 year old watch.  

 

HANDS:  So I had to go back and touch up the lume on the hands to better match the darker lume on the dial and after reading a few older modding threads I seen that some guys would brush the gilt hands on their watches to give it an older look... my scotch pad was a bit too new and I feel I went a bit far with it.  lesson learned , these were the wrong hands for this ref so no biggie. I am going to swap in a set of pencil hands anyway.  I will be using an older pad and a lighter touch for the next attempt.  again....errors are part of the process. 

 

 

The bezel is wrong for a 6205 as it should have a no hash bezel.  I happen to have in my parts bin,  a tiger concepts red triangle no hash so I I test fit ,  needed a bit of work but got it to fit the bezel....now it was on to ageing it.   I decided to bake it, after having success with my previous insert on my 5513  I figured , that was the route I wanted to go.    first I scuffed it up a bit with some 2000 grit to knock off the top finish and gave it a soak in some bleach....then into the oven....set to broil for the better part of an hour.   checking it occasionally .....the final time I pulled it out and WOW!!   

 

so after it cooled I completed the assembly and snapped some pics.

a few teaser pics before the big reveal......

 

love how the bezel turned out....better than expected really.  

 

not seated properly but you get a peak....what color is it??  how did the bezel turn out??!!

 

Ladies and Gents... I present to you my 6205 tropical sunrise.. 

 

 

tried a few bracelets , including my Ruby rivet but settled on my custom straight end link raffles rivet   it just encapsulates the 50s tool watch look.  A watch that spent most of its life out on the seas in the tropics , soaking up the rays ...only to find a pampered retirement after nearly 70 years.....so the story goes. 

The fade on the bezel is unreal!!  I am very pleased with how it turned out!!  a metallic  brown that ties the brassed bezel and tropical dial together beautifully!!   I just cant bring myself to distress the bezel with some marks....until I can replicate this effect  I am gonna leave it as is and let it happen naturally with wear...as I am no doubt going to wear the [censored] out of this piece for a while.   The red triangle wasn't common on this ref in fact very rare, I have only seen one gen with one and it was from the original owner. so its plausible. but the red does kinda stick out against the browns.   I will order another silver one from TC and see if I can replicate this effect!...but DAMN!!   Imagine if this bezel was gen?  I could sell it and retire to the beach , but to find a watch with both a tropical dial and bezel...1 in a million... plausible I suppose but the odds are off the charts...unless you happen to build it yourself.!! 

in the variance of light , you can see it goes from a blackish brown to a warm chestnut.   pretty wild.  

 

The dial did fade out and look baked by the Caribbean  sun , despite its damage  It looks the part, especially on the wrist.  overall I cant complain  it looks old and chocolate tropical , compared to how it appeared new out of the box. 

artsy

I do plan on swapping the hands with pencil hands and go another round with another proper bezel ...I have a 6mm +brevet crown that I am going to shape and swap as well to complete the build.

 

 

 

tossed it on an old light brown nato, now single pass strap ....talk about a warm rich color combo.   It reminds me of a black bay bronze.   Is it too much?  that is for you to decide.   Like it or hate it.   this is where were at.  I will update this post once I have swapped the parts in.  

Would be nice of  there was a slightly smaller case and bezel option for the 6205 as it was 37mm where this one is over 38 at case and 39 at the bezel .but now were just splitting hairs...need to find a bubble back that fits this case  maybe JMB can machine the back for me like he has done on my 6350

 

 

As always, comments and questions welcome.  

Thanks for looking.

 

p.s sorry for the ear worm if you picked up on the song lyrics ,   it was a theme party after all.. lol

 

 

[freddy333]

In spite of the dial's baked-in issues, the most obvious tell for me are the hands, which look wrong/aftermarket & new/artificially-aged. In fact, if it were not for the hands, I might not even be provoked into taking a closer look at the dial.

I would try to locate a more accurate handset & give them a more natural-looking patina. If you have not already done so, I would google pics of vintage gen Subs of the same era & find/study the appearance of a set you like. Then, try to replicate that exact look. In my experience, having a  single, clear target to copy always inspires creativity & results in a better finished product.

[JSebWC]

7 hours ago, freddy333 said:

In spite of the dial's baked-in issues, the most obvious tell for me are the hands, which look wrong/aftermarket & new/artificially-aged. In fact, if it were not for the hands, I might not even be provoked into taking a closer look at the dial.

I would try to locate a more accurate handset & give them a more natural-looking patina. If you have not already done so, I would google pics of vintage gen Subs of the same era & find/study the appearance of a set you like. Then, try to replicate that exact look. In my experience, having a  single, clear target to copy always inspires creativity & results in a better finished product.

Agreed the hands are what's really holding this build back.  I will be swapping in a set of gilt pencil hands and a brevet crown .  

 

This is the example that I had found online of a complete 6205 with red triangle insert , apparently original to the watch sold by the original owners family  and earlier example sans "submariner"  but not a 6200 or turn o graph. 

 

 

I have been bitten by the sub bug...damnit!!  Am I going to have to build one of every cool early reference ?? lol  

I do plan on adding a 6538 as that was the original plan until I came across the tropical dial 

 

I believe this one is a 6536  2 line text but it has the red triangle again, but that tropical dial and insert!! what a beauty!!   Quite similar to yours Freddy.  

 

 

 

 

 

[madasboot]

Nice work, but in my humble opinion the dial is the major teller.

these dials were gilt, not printed, so surface ageing doesnt have a realistic expression, mostly with paint blotches over the “oyster perpetual”.

 

best

M.

[madasboot]

One from my last batch.

notice the surface texture and the preserved sheen.

best

M.

[JSebWC]

I agree  as I had outlined in my post,  I scratched the dial so I experimented. as I did with the hands as they were temporary and are the wrong length.

 

I am not trying to fool anyone.   99% of the people wouldn't know  the first thing about this reference or even know the 6205 existed 

those that do know and that study the references ,  can spot it a mile away.   Just trying my hand at modding a sub.   improvements will come with a new dial and hands.  

 

I was more curious on the quality and in hand appearance of these tropical dials from raffles and I was not disappointed especially for  the price. 

 

@madasboot  I really dig your work and want to get my hands on some of those !! 

 

appreciate the feedback 

Edited February 7, 2023 by JSebWC

[JoeyB]

The chapter ring on the old watches measured 26mm in diameter. Rolex minute hands measure 12mm, being a radius. The very first minute hands on the 6204 and 6542 measured 13mm, reaching the chapter ring. To my eye it makes a whole lot better look, that silly little millimeter. I got my 13mm minute hand from Helearou some 8 years ago, and had to search long and hard at that time for a pencil hour hand to fit the slow beat genuine ETA2846. The Brevet + crown is from Raffletimes and modified. I've never seen a 6204 in person, but the pics I saw that inspired this build, particularly by Stefano Mazzariol, lead me to believe that the early Submariners hands and dials were gilt only by color description, but actually brass as an ocean diver watch might be. I lightly sanded my hands down to the brass, not shiny at all, and in 8+ years they've not tarnished in the closed case. My bezel is made from brass and nickel plated, which I lightly sanded to allow some brass to show through as if worn.  I am famous for my inability to take a decent picture of a watch, but the attached should give an idea of my build.  

[JSebWC]

A beautiful gen example  listed for 78800 last week   the insert looks original and seen better days,  those hands tho?

On 2/9/2023 at 4:35 PM, JoeyB said:

The chapter ring on the old watches measured 26mm in diameter. Rolex minute hands measure 12mm, being a radius. The very first minute hands on the 6204 and 6542 measured 13mm, reaching the chapter ring. To my eye it makes a whole lot better look, that silly little millimeter. I got my 13mm minute hand from Helearou some 8 years ago, and had to search long and hard at that time for a pencil hour hand to fit the slow beat genuine ETA2846. The Brevet + crown is from Raffletimes and modified. I've never seen a 6204 in person, but the pics I saw that inspired this build, particularly by Stefano Mazzariol, lead me to believe that the early Submariners hands and dials were gilt only by color description, but actually brass as an ocean diver watch might be. I lightly sanded my hands down to the brass, not shiny at all, and in 8+ years they've not tarnished in the closed case. My bezel is made from brass and nickel plated, which I lightly sanded to allow some brass to show through as if worn.  I am famous for my inability to take a decent picture of a watch, but the attached should give an idea of my build.  

Is yours tropical too or is just a reflection ?   looks great!!   Did you make the dial?

[JoeyB]

Thank you. No, not tropical, black with a patina that I controlled on both my 6204 and 6542 dials with the 'orange-peel' from the spray sealer (see the pic). It really looks a whole lot better than my feeble picture taking skills shows. 

 

The picture you posted also looks as though the crown is too large, maybe 7 or 8mm, not 6mm. So the hands and crown may have been changed in a service. 

 

 

[JSebWC]

Turns out a  tropical sunrise in gen land is out there.. ( not same reference but....)