SportsterRider Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 After reading about Flavor Flav's buddies problem, I got to thinking about what makes a replica a replica. Is it the case? The movement? The band? What if you have a genuine case and band, but utilize an ETA movement with a gen dial? Or, a gen case, but a rep dial and an ETA movement? Or a replica case, but genuine movement and dial? I have heard of independent jewelers replacing damaged movements with ETA's for folks who don't want to pay whatever premium to get the original movement fixed or replaced. Would a watch like this be 'seized' if it were to be looked at by customs? At what point does a watch have enough gen parts to not be considered a replica, or in violation of trademark/copyright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 At what point does a watch have enough gen parts to not be considered a replica, or in violation of trademark/copyright? According to Rolex, change anything and it's a rep, including the strap. This is being contested in court, I believe. Realistically, if the movement matches the case, it's a gen. If the movement and case come from different watches, it's a frankenwatch. This is my understanding, at least. To be a trademark infringement, any part with the company's brand or trademark on it that wasn't produced by the company is an infringement. This means aftermarket crowns are possible infringements, as are replacement Rolex crystals with the crown engraved on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I suppose that the term frankenwatch can be representative of many factors. It's a bit of a grey area; in my opinion, this sort of watch lies somewhere between replica and genuine, as they are not typically mass produced or built of entirely replicated and non genuine parts, and it's not a watch that originates from the official brand of marque, or any affiliates or subsidiaries, though the content of such a watch may be largely or wholly of genuine parts. Some watch enthusiasts consider any modified watch in a state of configure that is not as it was originally to be a frankenstein. This can include everything from hands or dial swapped to a different set that may not typically come with the specific watch in question, PVD treatment to a case that would normally be otherwise, polishing brushed components or vice versa, and so on. Other watch enthusiasts consider a frankenstein to be something that may have been built from parts collected; the completed watch may be a near exact or exact facsimilie to the genuine article as it may have originated from the brand of which the watch was originally released. I myself fall into this category... In cases where a third party watchmaker has replaced a genuine movement with one that is not original to that watch (though the replacement movement may be of the exact same caliber and quality), that too, could be considered a frankenstein. Anytime where a part, case, dial, movement, etc is replaced by an official service center dedicated and authorized for that brand, it is considered an authorized repair, and hence does not take away from the watch's integrity, though replacement parts are typically not as preferable as original parts to collectors, and may or may not impact value. One thing that's for certain- A frankenstein, no matter how much genuine parts content it carries (it could be made up of 100% genuine parts) will never be considered genuine (at least in my book)... But, they sure are fun to build... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted February 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Good info guys. I would imagine that this would be a topic of particular interest for folks who buy beat up genuine pieces with the intent of restoring them. I see a lot of worn/beat watches on E-Bay from time to time. If you can get one at a reasonable cost, bringing it up to snuff using aftermarket pieces could be a lot of fun. But if you had to send it out to get the work done, it looks like you'd have to take similar precautions that you would when dealing with an outright replica. Thanks for the replies! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elprimerozen Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 For me a gen watch is the one that comes...and stays as it came out from the factory.You can change something only if its broken or out of work...and always replace it with the same spare number.I have many thoughts on changing on my gen GMT master the dials which are the swiss t-25 with new one,but then i will miss the original t-25 sign on the dials.This watch for me wouldbe for sure a gen GMT but no like the gen i used to have out of rolex factory. When it comes to mbws or franken watches...for me these are watches that in my hart are more gen than any other gen watch...just because i tryed so hard to make them look as i would like,and i spend so many hours on working colecting info and replace all the rep parts with gen!Randy i think he will agree with me on franken watches! Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I agree with almost e erything said in this thread. What's really interesting to me is how, as reps improve, the definition is becoming more ethical/legal than practical/horological one. Let's say I buy a jimmyfzu case and CG; davdesen hands; a nearly 1:1 rep caseback and AR crystal for an old 005 rep; a gen dial; a palp crown; and a 6947-2 from Ebay. All of those parts, save the dial and movement, are rep parts made outside of Switzerland and the watch is assembled in the USA. Even though the dial is OEM I say modded rep, since a franken to me would have more gen parts, but the quality difference is minimal between that rep and a gen panerai. Visually not even a WIS could tell the difference without opening the case, but it is definitely a rep...legally. But it looks identical, works indentically. Things get a little murky once you close the law books, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsea Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 quality is other subject. geuninity is other a franken watch may be better than a gen but it is still a frankie... even if you mix geunine parts, it is still a frankie... for example you have a gen rolex seadweller. find a gen yacht master dial and mount it on your sea-dweller... your watch is not a sea-dweller any more... it is a franken watch. only acceptable case is, if you change some parts in the movement for repair... that won't do anything to geuninity of the watch. just my 2cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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