The Legality Of Replicas

[Pugwash]

Acually US customs laws were revised 3 years ago and a person can import goods up to $800.00 without paying any duty. Most reps are less than this and and as far as bringing in counterfeit watches, customs will seize them as they find them, but there are no laws to proscecute the smuggler of single watches for personal use. For resale, then that is a punitive offence, subjected to prosecution. For US colectors the only concern they have is being unlucky to have their watch seized. It behooves all to clarfiy with their dealer what guarantee the dealer has in such an event.

Excellent. Can you provide a reference for this as it goes against what I believed.

[hambone]

Excellent. Can you provide a reference for this as it goes against what I believed.

The reference you seek is not written Pugwash, nor is there a statute which implicates that buyers of counterfeit watches oversees are subject to counterfeiting laws. Only sellers. US law is often a vast grey area when it comes to such matters, except for narcotics and other 'evils'. My statement is based on conversations with US customs employees. If you want to split hairs, I am sure they can find a way to prosecute you for buying counterfeit watches, however there is NO precedent. It is simply way below their radar and there is no need to alarm anyone who is in the US and wants to buy a watch from China but will not out of fear for being sent to the pen, or subjected to a heavy fine. It won't happen.

[Tim]

Paranoia run rampant....

You all better watch yourselves before some guy in a black tuque, not speaking Canadian, knocks on your door to rendition your a$$! According to U.S. Customs, the devil wears knock-off Prada.

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Financing Terror

Profits from counterfeit goods pay for attacks

By Kathleen Millar, Public Affairs Specialist

U.S. Customs Office of Public Affairs

Anti-terrorist organizations in the U.S. and abroad are homing in on the close connections between transnational crime and terrorism. Before 9/11, law enforcement defined both as strategic threats but tended to approach each problem separately, constructing one set of responses to criminal activities-like money laundering, IPR violations, and drug trafficking-and devising other tactics to combat terrorism.

Today, in a post-9/11 environment, agencies like Customs and Interpol understand that the international underworld is a breeding ground for terrorism, providing groups like al Qaeda, Hammas, Hezbollah, and the Irish Republican Army (IRA) with funds generated by illegal scams, and with opportunities to launder millions in terrorist dollars. Behind the army of hijackers, suicide bombers, and terrorist gunmen stands an even greater number of "company men"-criminal entrepreneurs and financiers in suits who understand the best way to bankroll Armageddon is through the capitalist system.

They run what look like legitimate businesses, travel to "business meetings" in Frankfurt, Amsterdam, and New York, and pay fictional "employees" with money that feeds and houses terrorist cells. They run computer manufacturing plants and noodle shops, sell "designer clothes" and "bargain-basement" CDs. They invest, pay taxes, give to charity, and fly like trapeze artists between one international venture and another. The endgame, however, is not to buy a bigger house or send the kids to an Ivy League school - it's to blow up a building, to hijack a jet, to unleash a plague, and to kill thousands of innocent civilians.

Interpol and Customs join forces against IPR violations

Financing terrorism is a topic that Customs and Interpol are taking seriously. Last year, soon after the attacks on New York and Washington, Interpol hosted the 1st International Conference on IPR in Lyon, France. Enforcement and security experts outlined the relationships between global commerce and global crime - instances in which profits from counterfeit merchandise funded terrorist activities - and participants agreed that Interpol needed to create a Group of Experts on International Property Crime.

Interpol hosted the first meeting of the multi-agency, IP Advisory Group on July 23. The group met again on October 3, and law enforcement officials from U.S. Customs, Finnish Customs, Ireland, Northern Ireland, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police joined forces with the corporate community to hammer out concrete responses on an international scale. The World Intellectual Property Organization, the Motion Picture Association, the International Anti-Counterfeiting Coalition, Procter and Gamble, the World Customs Organization, the Pharmaceutical Security Institute, the International Federation of Phonographic Industry, the Global Anti-Counterfeiting Group, the European Union, and REACT Services (UK) all had representatives at the table.

"Our objective," says Erik Madsen, a crime intelligence officer with Interpol, "was to raise awareness, to create a strategic plan to fight this kind of crime, and to take action."

In the end, all agreed the evidence was indisputable: a lucrative trafficking in counterfeit and pirated products - music, movies, seed patents, software, tee-shirts, Nikes, knock-off CDs, and "fake drugs" - accounts for much of the money the international terrorist network depends on to feed its operations.

New York's Joint Terrorist Taskforce reported a counterfeit T-shirt ring had used sales profits to subsidize the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. In 1999, an International Chamber of Commerce official reported the IRA was financing its operations by selling pirated videos, including a copy of "the Lion King." In 2000, a naturalized Paraguayan citizen born in Lebanon was charged with selling millions in counterfeit software out of a headquarters operation in the notorious piracy haven of Ciudad del Este; allegedly, the proceeds went to the militant Islamic group Hezbollah. Last year, Microsoft officials based in London charged counterfeiters were using the Internet to sell pirated software, an effort they described as one designed to support drug running and terrorism.

Losses from counterfeiting and piracy outstrip 9/11 impact on airlines

For years, legitimate manufacturers have cited huge financial losses, the run-off from IPR violations, as a primary reason to pass tough IPR legislation and enforce anti-counterfeiting laws. What policy-makers sometimes failed to note was the sheer enormity of those losses. After 9/11, leaders in both the public and private sectors described the loss to the U.S. airline industry as "catastrophic." While the airline industry accounts for about 10 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, copyright industries generate more foreign sales and exports than the aircraft and aircraft parts industries combined.

The new link between commercial-scale piracy and counterfeiting has redirected public attention in 2002, and law enforcement agencies like Customs and Interpol are going after the organized crime syndicates in charge of what was too often viewed as a "victimless crime." September 11 changed the way Americans look at the world. It also changed the way American law enforcement looks at Intellectual Property crimes.

[scoobs1971]

Fellow Dutchmen please read http://www.jurofoon.nl/nieuws/weblog.asp?id=2670.

In the Netherlands officially it is not allowed to import any replicated goods. However, customs allow you to bring a maximum of 3 replicated goods of different categories (i.d. 3 rep cloths + 3 rep watches + 3 rep DVD´s etc..) in your bagage.

Having more will risk you a fine and confiscation of all goods.

[Note: this is not a fact, but my assumption] I can´t find any legal information on importing goods through internet, but I expect that the same amount will be allowed.

edit: Importing/exporting is not allowed at all. See post 107

[Pugwash]

I can´t find any legal information on importing goods through internet, but I expect that the same amount will be allowed.

Three per order? Three per lifetime?

[spa]

I am not sure about what "kind" of laws exist in my country concerning counterfeit products. I assume that there is a violation to import such products in the country.

What i am sure is that there is no organized research on a regular basis to spot such products either importing 'em or using (wearing, carrying) them.

I've "heard" that IF the customs happen to open a package that contains counterfeit products you MIGHT be in problems in case you are the destination of the package...not confirmed though...

But living so many years here i can assure you that almost nobody gives a s**t about counterfeit products (at least clothing, accessories like bags or watches).

I strongly believe that the worse thing could happen from the Greek customs "catching" a counterfeit product is to confiscate it and probably keep it for their use...

There *is* absolutely NO organized goverment or police team that runs around looking for my fake watch or my wife's fake bag to seize it and apply a fine...

Good thing?

Not always....

(Edited for typos)

Edited February 27, 2007 by spa

[Pugwash]

I am not sure about what "kind" of laws exist in my country concerning counterfeit products.

Greece? It's implied, but not stated.

[spa]

Greece? It's implied, but not stated.

yeap

[scoobs1971]

Three per order? Three per lifetime?

If they allow you as a traveler to bring 3 reps in your bagage, I would assume when you buy from internet it will be 3 pieces per order. But I can't find that stated anywhere. That's why I order my reps with EU based dealers.

However, the link I posted is based on an official Customs notification.

edit: importing/exporting is not allowed. See post 107

[Pugwash]

If they allow you as a traveler to bring 3 reps in your bagage, I would assume when you buy from internet it will be 3 pieces per order. But I can't find that stated anywhere. That's why I order my reps with EU based dealers.

So as long as they bag them in groups of three, I can order unlimited amounts?

What you're suggesting is like saying "As long as I order stuff over the internet, it's just like buying whisky at the duty free shop. They limit you to a litre per trip, but if I order it on the internet, it's got to be the same, right?"

The intention of this thread is to gather known facts, not speculations. The more accurate we are, the easier it will be for someone using the search feature to find specifics that will assist them in their purchases.

[scoobs1971]

The intention of this thread is to gather known facts, not speculations. The more accurate we are, the easier it will be for someone using the search feature to find specifics that will assist them in their purchases.

I agree, that's why I explicitly stated that this is my assumption and therefore I buy from EU based dealers.

But let me know if my assumption clutter the facts. I will be happy to edit my post.

[Pugwash]

I agree, that's why I explicitly stated that this is my assumption and therefore I buy from EU based dealers.

But let me know if my assumption clutter the facts. I will be happy to edit my post.

I am not a fan of editing posts after they've been discussed as they break the logical flow for someone reading it afterwards.

[scoobs1971]

I am not a fan of editing posts after they've been discussed as they break the logical flow for someone reading it afterwards.

I added a personal disclaimer..

But it's good to stick to the facts in this thread.

[reespa]

New here - I live in Luxembourg and although the laws here will be of little real practical use to anyone, my recent experiance is at least interesting.

A few months ago I purchased a few reps together with some friends there were 5 watches in total (Omega, Panerai, Tag, Frank Muller, Cartier).

Luxembourg customs opened the box and inspected the watches and presumed them to be fake. They impormed me that there was a issue and then photographed the watches and sent photographs to the respective companies. After a month or so customs forwarded letters from all but Tag confirming that these were fake and instructing customs to destroy the watches, however before doing so the customs guy phoned me and asked permission to do so.

As Tag did not reply the Luxembourg customs delivered this watch without any problems even though they were 100% sure it was a fake.

In the meantime the dealer, to his credit, resent the whole order to a UK address at no cost.

It does not really say much about the laws in Luxembourg but the customs guys were incredibly courtious and certainly have a bunch of time on their hands!

Paul

[fishgodeep]

Cocaine is without question illegal in the UK as the rest of the world but if the figures are to believed , there has been a 500% increase in shipments (this based on seizures at x % of total) over recent years.

Also massive influx of immigration from Eastern Europe has created it's own illegal problems form them to focus on - human trafficking , gun-crime etc.

I have a friend who works in the postal service in the Uk and according to him - all they are told to look out for when sorting mail is anything that smells like explosive or chemicals , powders, or if it ticks (LOL)

I think with "war on terror" sh*t , bombs ,drugs and even the odd bit of plutonium getting into the country (killing a Russian spy in December ) replica watches will be far dwon their list of priorities .....the country is f*cked anyway!!!

Pirated DVD's , Music etc have been hit hard recently - but we are talking self contained home-factory operations churning out 1000's of copies a day.

I think you have to be very unlucky to get caught with small volumes - Homer has being doing business for some time now and keeping it very clean and tidy.

All the best from the UK

fishgodeep

[uatchmaker]

Looks like I'm moving to China.

In the Peoples Republic of China, those caught manufacturing counterfeit watches are treated to a lavish dinner hosted by the Mayor of whatever city the offense has occured. They are then subjected to a bevy of young naked women who tie down the offender and subject him to various sexual indiscretions. These events are photographed and distributed to other potential counterfeiters so as to cause them great alarm and disuade them from their business practice. Seems like the law has been pretty effective so far.

[arminvanbuuren]

Pirated and counterfeit goods

Copyright piracy and trade mark counterfeiting are illegal. By buying pirated or counterfeit items, not only could you end up with a flawed product, you are supporting an illegal trade that could involve serious criminal activity.

You can play an important role in combating copyright piracy and counterfeiting of trade marks by not bringing pirated or counterfeit goods into Australia. In some circumstances pirated and counterfeit goods imported into Australia are liable to seizure by Customs and people importing such goods may be subject to civil litigation or criminal prosecution.

there u go aussie law.. now im stressing like hell because i have one on the way :\ ... i swear if i survive this.. it'll be my last reps for a while :\

[Kollektor]

I am in Texas so my law is the government can kiss my ass and they can have my watches when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

...or when you run outta ammo LOL

[Marc283]

In the Netherlands we are only allowed to bring back small amount of counterfeit goods when returning from holliday. For example we are allowed to have 3 replica watches in our bagage. When customs find more than 3 replica watches all of them will be seized and you could get a fine.

We are absoluty not allowed to import counterfeit goods, when for example ordered over the internet.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Marc283

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Kinda off the subject... I sell musical instruments online. Mostly unbranded copies of Fender and Gibson guitars... but I have a few other novelty items. One of which is a guitar (or bass guitar) shaped and painted like an AK47 machine gun. Every time I ship one internationally, my system automatically prints the proper customs forms with the items description. I have shipped these EVERYWHERE in the world, they are one of my best selling items. BUT I have finally had to block all shipments to the UK. It seems that a customs form with description of contents listed as "AK-47 elec. guit" just isnt acceptable!!!!

It took me 5 losses to come to the realization this wasnt going to work!

[fitmic]

Sweden

Illegal to import counterfeits, but legal to bring a few t-shirts and watches when returning on holiday.

Illegal to sell counterfeits.

Note: It WAS legal to import a replica as long it wasn't meant for resale, but nomore.

[scoobs1971]

We are absoluty not allowed to import counterfeit goods, when for example ordered over the internet.

Where did you get this information from? I couldn't find anything official on internet to confirm this.

I did find lots of official information about bringing a maximum of 3 replicas per category (jewelry, clothing, CD's and DVD's etc.) into this country coming back from holidays.

Also curious to know what the law says about possesion of reps....

Edit: See post 107

[Pugwash]

Where did you get this information from? I couldn't find anything official on internet to confirm this.

Look up laws on smuggling counterfeit.

[scoobs1971]

Look up laws on smuggling counterfeit.

Probably forbidden... BUT, this is 'common practice' as stated on the the official cust*ms site: hxxp://www.douane.nl/particulier/reizigersbagage/reizigersbagage-16.html

(you are allowed to bring 3 watches max in your bagage)

What I would like to know is what the 'common practice' is for importing reps through internet.

Edit: see post 107

[Pugwash]

What I would like to know is what the 'common practice' is for importing reps through internet.

Anyone that has ever lost a rep to customs will be able to answer that. Firstly, it's smuggling, even strictly on import duty before we even get to counterfeiting. Are you specifically asking about Holland?