Watchmeister Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Too frustrating. $600 for a watch that may become a paperweight sooner rather than later and cannot allow for a swap to a Swiss movement? I had been looking forward to the ceramic version but it never occurred to me that it could price out at $600 with an Asian movement. Every other expensive Asian based movement watch I have simply built in the cost of a Swiss movement. On the one hand it is well within my personal rep/gen ratio. I believe it is under 10% of the cost of a gen. On the other hand I have always followed the simple rule that once you approach 10-15% of the cost of a gen it should either have a solid Swiss movement in it or building in the cost of a Swiss movement still leaves you in that range. Of course this one will be well over 10% when the gen's are discounted 40% six months from now on Timezone. Now the next generation comes out and the prior generation remains at the same price. I don't blame the dealers. It is a for profit business and the manufacturers and distributors are getting smarter and greedier. IMHO, we all just have to decide whether to ride out initial dealer exclusives or not. The funny part is that after the ridiculously long loop on various cartel issues what we end up with is honest descriptions and ever rising prices. I had put more than $_0,000 into reps over the last few years. I may go the way of others here and buy 3-4 gens instead this year. Naw, that violates my sensibilities too. Actually this is not a laughing matter. My old plan B is increasingly my plan A. Let somebody else take the risk and buy it from them in the aftermarket when they are tired of it and after it has withstood the passage of some time. Or worse, wait for Paul to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elprimerozen Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Btw its realy nice watch...and maybe i will go for it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 what are the black pieces, in the photo above, made from? Plastic (i.e. "kevlar") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 I want it.... but I don't need it (now) and can wait for it to drop a good bit in price. If you give me the words "$600" "chrono" and "rep" I also expect to hear "swiss movement" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Plastic (i.e. "kevlar") Maybe actually Carbon Fibre... Kevlar would be yellow (unless specifically coloured black) Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Now that they have all the ingredients.... I will wait for the RG with Ceramic bezel version! Started to feel the need for something gold and this one would be just great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The cack Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 King now has these available on his site too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 How about the "black magic" complete ceramic version with swiss movement Now that would tempt me, but these prices are outrageous and now out of my range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Maybe actually Carbon Fibre... Kevlar would be yellow (unless specifically coloured black) Offshore Kevlar comes in all differant colors, it is basically plastic. From the hublot website: A Kevlar insert gives the impression that the rubber strap goes through the watch itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Now that they have all the ingredients.... I will wait for the RG with Ceramic bezel version! Started to feel the need for something gold and this one would be just great! That wouldn't be bad either, but would still prefer the all black, and if not the black magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenileCoot Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Now that they have all the ingredients.... I will wait for the RG with Ceramic bezel version! Started to feel the need for something gold and this one would be just great! This looks like gen. The red paint doesn't extend all the way down between the "H" on replicas. If that's fixed, I might be tempted to buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 that is a gen, he was suggesting it as one to rep now they have the ceramic bezel. oh and the red paint thing isn't a flaw, some of the gens have the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSlickAK Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 From what I read at the site. It says that the Rose Gold with Ceramic Bezel and carbon fibre dial version is available. Just haven't seen a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Given how easily the whole thing comes apart it would seem pretty easy to gold plate any part you like. I wonder incedentally if the real Big Bang in gold is all gold.. or just the parts visible on the outside. You can clearly see the inner case in the blow-up shot above made of steel, and that inner case is not visible once the watch is assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 this gets back the same question i asked a couple weeks ago: where is the market for these??? the rep boards are pretty much high end rep collectors. we buy davidsen pams and mbw's. lot's of members have bought BCE's and steelfish and ets ultimate p.o.'s etc. most of us ar also watch geeks who know what obscure brands and models are. but the general consensus is that the HBB, and now the ceramic bezel version is just too damn expensive. i agree. so who is buying them? i just can't see the typical tourist in a rep market looking at a $200 sub that will impress all his friends and deciding instead to pay $600 for a brand he (and his friends) have never heard of? maybe the market is in china? but at these prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 this gets back the same question i asked a couple weeks ago: where is the market for these??? the rep boards are pretty much high end rep collectors. we buy davidsen pams and mbw's. lot's of members have bought BCE's and steelfish and ets ultimate p.o.'s etc. most of us ar also watch geeks who know what obscure brands and models are. but the general consensus is that the HBB, and now the ceramic bezel version is just too damn expensive. i agree. so who is buying them? i just can't see the typical tourist in a rep market looking at a $200 sub that will impress all his friends and deciding instead to pay $600 for a brand he (and his friends) have never heard of? maybe the market is in china? but at these prices? I think much of the market is in china. Especially on this rep, I know this is a complete & unfair generalization, I am racist, and am going to hell, etc. But this watch seems to do better with Asian buyers... I have seen it 2x in NYC and both times an asian guy was wearing it - guessing gen on both given where I saw them. Your evidence may of course vary and it isn't really worth arguing this point, just a silly theory I have. Seemed to look better on them than me, skin tones just have that effect. They also realize there are two sets of buyers for reps. One that will pay top dollar for the latest and greatest, and another more value conscious set. They charge the high price first to extract what is basically a monopoly rent from the early adopters, then wait for sales to drop off and cut the price. This way they maximize profit. If you sell 50 of these, it is better to sell 15 at $600 and 35 at $400 than all 50 at $400, particularly if you don't need all the money right away... The theory that upsets me most, and that I think might also be the case, is that they are initially charging $600 for these so when the price gets down to $400 everyone will think it is a "good deal" and they are "saving" $200, when really they are getting a rep that should have cost $250-350 (max!) to begin with. Probably a symptom of general trend toward higher prices. Could also be the case that it is hard to get ceramic part for this, limited supply, etc so it makes even more sense to use theories 2 & 3 since they don't have the stock to meet the demand at $400... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Beyond Chinese market there is also the Japanese market which has the longest history of buying well made knock-offs of expensive branded products. As for what happens on prices it is less clear in my mind. The business model has changed beginning at the factory level. Based on experience with legit companies manufacturing in China as well as what I have heard from 3 different dealers who are not part of the cartel I suspect the issue begins at the factory level. The factories themselves are demanding longer runs and higher prices. Why? Because they can. Also many manufacturing companies are trying to dramatically improve their scale and results either to sell the business or to take them public in the overly inflated Chinese stock market. Most rep factories either make other legit items or are part of larger groups which make legit items. In any case the distributors/dealers to markets outside of China end up with higher required minimums and prices meaning they are assuming more risk in their inventory and as a result they are going to charge more and try and sustain higher prices longer. In spite of all the discussion of cartels and impact on pricing I think the biggest impact come from the earlier links in the chain. Ultimately price will impact sales and we will see who flinches first - manufacturers, distributors/large sellers, smaller dealers or the buying public. With the dramatic growth in the "middle class" in China if the largest group of buyers are in the domestic market (albeit at half of what we pay) I don't think we see this getting better any time soon. If we are not the drivers of the market we are certainly the cream of it (or rather those dumb enought to pay those prices). By the way both the Chinese and Japanese markets are likely better conditioned to buying Asian movements. Getting back to the thread - very nice watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADRED7 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I agree with most of the above said......the 600$-range is a bit too high....and YES, when the price will drop to a very very special price of 400$ some people will enter the HBB train. JUST MY PERSONAL 0.02$: I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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