Dutchy Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) I know its been discussed but I'd like as much feedback as possible with your opinions, even though its a bit of a touchy subject. Do you guys believe that Rolex representatives or Panerai or Omega, etc, visit these forums? I mean, they HAVE GOT to know that these exist, they arent stupid (even though we'd like to think they are) just go to google as we know (its how I got here in the first place). Now, I know that in comparison to the huge market of replicas we are small, and this isnt a rep selling site, nor promoting reps, simply addressing the passion people have for these fine pieces. Anyway, I was just wondering why there are no threats from these companies or lawyers etc towards these forums (or they are kept secret). I am not trying to start something here, its just that I've just read an article about sites being attcked by those guys, sites even REFERRING or containing the words 'replica'. I was gonna post a link, but lost the site.... anyway, I dont take that so seriously, it just awoke some extra attention to the matter. The articles in the news referring to replicas are usually to SCARE people. Such as "wear a rep and you'll go to jail"...well thats a lot of people in jail! Just wondering about your opinions. Edited April 15, 2006 by Dutchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) sure. they may be have somebody doing some research, but i dont know how that research is being performed. However, we all have been recommend not to post reps in forums like t*m*zone or the pu*ists. Sometimes people get angry when they realise how close is the watch compared to a rep, so obviously they call for some action and punishment. These forums are just part of a big iceberg which is a very lucrative business itself, (replica factories, asian based)... So if they want to take action against this forum they should known that it wont stop the business, and people will keep buying reps. This forum is some kind of review site or rep comparision and is runned by normal people, not a company, so its difficult. I think watch companies should give thanks to these forums, they cant stop the business but at least people wont damage the brand by wearing stupid replicas, because people will still buy reps whetever this forum or other exists. And the watches brands know that a rep owner will probably be a customer one day. Edited April 15, 2006 by manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 sure. they may be have somebody doing some research, but i dont know how that research is being performed. However, we all have been recommend not to post reps in forums like t*m*zone or the pu*ists. Sometimes people get angry when they realise how close is the watch compared to a rep, so obviously they call for some action and punishment. These forums are just part of a big iceberg which is a very lucrative business itself, (replica factories, asian based)... So if they want to take action against this forum they should known that it wont stop the business, and people will keep buying reps. This forum is some kind of review site or rep comparision and is runned by normal people, not a company, so its difficult. I think watch companies should give thanks to these forums, they cant stop the business but at least people wont damage the brand by wearing stupid replicas, because people will still buy reps whetever this forum or other exists. And the watches brands know that a rep owner will probably be a customer one day. I fully agree. Companies should indeed be happy and many people here buy reps and later on the gens! Floris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cucumber_Jones Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 It is said that Panerai is ok with reps as they lead to more sales eventualy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 I am not trying to start something here, its just that I've just read an article about sites being attcked by those guys, sites even REFERRING or containing the words 'replica'. I was gonna post a link, but lost the site.... anyway, I dont take that so seriously, it just awoke some extra attention to the matter. The articles in the news referring to replicas are usually to SCARE people. Such as "wear a rep and you'll go to jail"...well thats a lot of people in jail! Just wondering about your opinions. I am sure they know about these sites, but there isn't much they can do since collecting these things is perfectly legal - at least here in the US, and for now. If it ever becomes illegal to own reps, I am going to be sick! Forums for discussion are very hard to shut down, no matter what they discuss - for example, consider the most sad, sick bunch of mutts that ever assembled, "NAMBLA." I am not generally inclined toward the concept of vigilante justice, which is pretty much an oxymoron, but if a NAMBLA member lived next door to me, I'd not tolerate it. Still, they have their forums. Same with those who screw farm animals, and promote hate crimes. Personally, having spent almost thirty years in investigation/enforcement occupations myself, I think that the problem for gen manufacturers has grown to such an extent that they have either got to quit pretending there is some justfication for their ridiculous prices, shut down China's manufacturing system, or face extinction, and the only way to shut it down is thru political maneuvering. China isn't stupid. I thik they are going to deliberately continue to allow rep manufacturers to develop their art until it becomes the maximum political bargaining chip that it can grow to. Once it reaches critical mass, they will probably concede the point in exchange for some political concession that they want, and then shut the rep mans down. When they do that, it will be over - China can be very, very efficient at implementing social policy. Personally, I hope that the rep industry forces the gen manufacturers to price their products more realistically. I don't think the government owes it to them to make unrealistic trade practices possible. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Bill, I know what you mean. Indeed they have a huge amount of power (China) and what we are doing here is legal. I also like your opinon of the political aspects. Floris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck88 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 This may have been mentioned already, but Rolex does not care about you or me. They care about those who make and distribute reps, but not those that collect the odd few (costs them way too much to worry about us). Just like drugs - they care about those who make and distribute the drugs, not so much about those that use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 the feds just busted 3 other forums i was frequenting. also counterfait stuff, not watches though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Never even thought of that. Getting the big picture now! Good comparison by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 (edited) AFAIK, it's legal to own a rep. Indeed it's very hard for them to sue, unless there is fraud involved. The seller and maker are in violation of the copyrights and trademarks. These companies can't do much about it. It's a waste of money for them to sue. I don't think Rolex, Panerai or Omega would care about the rep industry. To be honest, I know nothing about Panerai if I don't have this rep collecting hobby. I will eventually buy a panerai when I have enough money. The only exception is replica handbags. I wuoldn't buy a LV or Chanel. There are so many lower class people (not discriminative, just fact) wearing ugly fake handbags. It does hurt LV in sales imo. The main reason for the FED to take action is due to the complaints from some companies. Also, counterfeits are linked to terrorism, money laundering and other illegal activities. The FED is trying to stop the money source of these illegal organization. Edited April 16, 2006 by cwai02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 the feds just busted 3 other forums i was frequenting. also counterfait stuff, not watches though! Damn....thats a nasty little coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 The only exception is replica handbags. I wuoldn't buy a LV or Chanel. There are so many lower class people (not discriminative, just fact) wearing ugly fake handbags. It does hurt LV in sales imo. Agreed. Teachers, girls at school, etc etc etc...all have those.... too common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 its illegal to own a rep in switzerland! if a cop sees you with a rep on your wrist, he can arrest you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 its illegal to own a rep in switzerland! if a cop sees you with a rep on your wrist, he can arrest you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzanooo Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Business is Business. When and if, the big Dogs start loosing ground in sales, thats when the belt will tighten... abit. The name of the game is sales, which = bottom line. As long as Sales Plan is met by the Corp. office, they really don`t give a [censored] what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 This may have been mentioned already, but Rolex does not care about you or me. They care about those who make and distribute reps, but not those that collect the odd few (costs them way too much to worry about us). Just like drugs - they care about those who make and distribute the drugs, not so much about those that use... Whoaaaaaaaaaa there. VERY VERY bad choice of comparisons. First, feel free to send Rolex a picture of my collection - it's not that they choose to do nothing, there is nothing they can do. It is not just like drugs - buying, selling, using illegal drugs is a crime. Buying reps (here and now) is not a violation of any law at all. If it becomes illegal, I'm done. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klink Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Basic Criminology: The elements of a crime need to be present, ALL the elements of a crime.. here? replica forums? insulated beyond any means of putting together the buyer, the seller, the money, i.e. the elements of a crime, witnessed and collected in a manner sufficient to allow of charges. GAF? Mostly lawyer threat joke.. simple, really.. boogeyman BOO! : ) Klink p.s. and if you are caught> pay the price, and keep yer trap shut.. works for me.. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I doubt we affect them that much. How many people who have the $$ to drop on a real PP are going to order a fake one anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 the feds just busted 3 other forums i was frequenting. also counterfait stuff, not watches though! Your avatar makes it look like you were running from them ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 its illegal to own a rep in switzerland! if a cop sees you with a rep on your wrist, he can arrest you I think it's also illegal in France and Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I don't think Rolex, Panerai or Omega would care about the rep industry. They care, because every rep sold devalues their brand. To assume any manifacturer is ok or even happy with reps is, in my opinion, a little short-sited. Reps dilute their brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I doubt that the majors would send people to investigate these forums. It is a poor use of time and money. They're going to spend their effort on marketing first and foremost. *If* they saw reps as a big problem, they'd take time to do an education campaign on how to identify a rep from the gen (like rolex has). The best expenditure of their resources is to either expose those who own reps via identification, or to vaccinate the folks who buy gens from buying reps. Just some thoughts. You're totally misreading how this is done--They can't go after the source, becsue the source is the only other superpoweresque country on the planet. So they will prosecute the failed strategy of the War on Drugs: Goinf after the little guy and working their way up. Plus, busting wearers of replica goods is better press for the politicians & law enforcement than sending a team of balding lawyers to China to urge some functionary to clamp down on the replica market. Case in point: The Bush (mis) Administration put out a press release about how they're going to find all the fake watches coming into the US--meanwhile, they absolutely refuse to check more than 5% of shipping crates a refusal that could concievably kill millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klink Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 lacking the elements of a crime (buyer, seller, transfer of counterfeit for cash) the only things that can be done: Seize a counterfeit when one is found in the mail, or send threatening letters to the ISP of a rep selling site. They have had success with selling sites that are not properly 'insulated'.. but many are insulated.. As we know, there are ISP's who use threatening letters for scrap paper.. could care less.. AP cares nothing about counterfeits, they just laugh.. Ralex.. well, Ralex is death on reps, and spends tons of money doing any and every trick they can think of.. from threats to informers. RWG1 - RWGjr - WT - TRC - RWI so well insulated that all Rollie can do is grind teeth.. and individual members purchasing stuffs? No chain of? Evidence.. Replicas are not even @ 1% of the gen market.. so sad too bad for Rollie, they have an attitude that they causes themselves heartburn.. 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling' : ) Life is Good! Klink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Ok, every single answer here has ONE HELL OF A TRUTH to it. I agree with nearly every single one, in full or part. Thanks for all your opinions. Floris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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