My 090 PR

[r11co]

This watch has a story, and its a bit like the old street sweeper's story - the one about the broom he's been using since the day he started. Three new heads and two new handles later, but it's the same broom....

Bought this on a whim as part of a group buy Kostas set up with Silix maybe 18 months ago. It was the watch I had on the day I met JTB for the first time as we got together so I can hand over his vintage military PAM out of the group buy package. Originally it had a SS bracelet, which was superb and probably the most impressive part of the watch. To be honest it was cheap, and it showed in the rest of the watch - mineral crystal and non-existent lume. This was the lesser-grade of the two versions of this watch that are available. Thankfully both carry the excellent Seagull ST-25 (2892 clone) movement.

I wore it a fair bit (including on my trip to Monte Carlo last year), then decided after some persuasion from folks in here to have it re-lumed by Mark (Finepics). It was September and the beginning of when Mark was starting to get overloaded with work. The watch was away some time. When it returned the transformation to the dial and hands was outstanding. Having that cheeky little extra complication PR hand glowing away there was just so cute looking

Unfortunately, Mark had lost the original CG. He had done his best to fit another but it didn't match the non-standard Silix case. He offered to replace the CG, and failing that he would re-case the entire watch, so I sent it back.

Now, I'd been without the watch for months by this point so was falling well and truly out of love with it. The excellent bracelet was still in my possession so I decided to liquidate it.

I waited and waited while Mark got the new case, and boy did he do me a favour. The watch returned with the up-spec case - sapphire crystal and accurate CG, as well as no unpleasant casting marks between the lugs, unlike the previous.

I decided I would buy a strap for it. I would go for an up-spec calf leather rep strap from Silix and order it to be delivered with the Planet Ocean rubber strap that was promised to be 'on the market soon'.

Months passed with my strap order pending and this watch sitting hidden in my watch box.

Eventually the PO rubber strap was announced and my order went in. The straps arrive, but the deployant I asked for for the PAM strap was too small (20mm instead of 22mm). At this point I thought me and my 090 were destined never to be connected again.

I eventually managed to trade the deployant for a polished buckle that matches the polished case of the 090 perfectly (thanks 4fun!)

So, here she is, transformed.

I am now thinking, should I rejoice in the prodigal returning, or sell it on for someone else to enjoy?!

[sssurfer]

Nice result! And Finepics' lume job is -- as always -- awesome.

I too love giving a new dignity to cheap watches.

Thankfully both carry the excellent Seagull ST-25 (2892 clone) movement.

I recently made an extensive search about this and I came to the conclusion that ST-25 has nothing to do with the 2892.

I also asked for your specific opinion:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=27383

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=27493

Please would you point me where you got your info about the ST-25 / 2892 similarites?

All ST-25xx models I saw do not even have the date. And the 090 movement and 2892-A2 datewheels are completely different size (verified).

[mzimand1]

You should sell it to me. I sent you a PM

[r11co]

Please would you point me where you got your info about the ST-25 / 2892 similarites?

All ST-25xx models I saw do not even have the date. And the 090 movement and 2892-A2 datewheels are completely different size (verified).

I completely missed that thread.

What I do know for sure is that the 090 rep uses a Seagull movement, and you can see for yourself there's a datewheel there!!

First pic is from Gran's guide to Seagull movements. Second pic I nicked from Po-Mart, but that's what's inside the 090 rep.

Say what you see!

[sssurfer]

I completely missed that thread.

What I do know for sure is that the 090 rep uses a Seagull movement, and you can see for yourself there's a datewheel there!!

First pic is from Gran's guide to Seagull movements. Second pic I nicked from Po-Mart, but that's what's inside the 090 rep.

Say what you see!

Hi, thanks for your reply!

As I said in that other thread(s), the question arises from a try by Lello to make correct datewheels for the 090.

Should the 090 datewheel be a copy of a widely available datewheel, Lello could buy a bunch of those datewheels and have them reprinted with the correct font, that is a different matter from having the interested 090 owners disassemble their watch and send Lello their datewheel.

I too think that the movement in the 090 is from Seagull, and it is a good quality movement, exceptional value for the 090 price.

The problems are that it is not a seagull ST-25, and it is not a copy of the 2892.

Gunnar's pic shows the back of the ST-2502. Here is the front view and a blueprint (all pics taken from the Seagull's website):

As you can see, it is a dateless movement (with two subdials instead).

More recently, the ST-XX movements have been renamed TY-XX (TY standing for TSINLIEN YIQING CO.,LTD that is a trade company that is the only abroad agent of TIANJIN SEAGULL WATCH GROUP CORP).

The TY-2502 blueprint is the same as the ST-2502:

So, the movement in the 090 is not the ST (or TY) -2502.

It may be another Seagull movement, but I checked all Seagull movement pics available on the net and I was unable to find it.

Especially, it does not seem a ST/TY-25xx series, as all the 25xx movements I found (up to 2508) were dateless.

Whatever movement it is, it also does not look a copy of the 2892-A2 -- or at least their datewheels are completely different.

It is a pity to be unable to find if there are any movements with interchangeable datewheels with the 090, as the 090 is quite a widespread model and many members could be interested (hopely, about the 20 number needed to make the cost of a reprint worth).

[r11co]

Hmmm. Curiouser and curiouser.....

The base movement still seems to be a Seagull ST-25xx. In the photo the presence of the date pusher would confirm that, although considerable amount of reworking has been done to the date function. The ST2502 isn't dateless - it is a day/date movement (LH subdial day, RH subdial date)

The PR function is easy to explain away as that is usually an add-on module anyway.

I don't think we can truly rule out that the base movement isn't in fact an ST-25, but it would seem correct that while the ST-25xx movement may share some parts with the ST-18 2892 clone, they are far enough apart to be regarded as completely different movements.

Which doesn't help at all with regard to the reworked date function. A custom overlay seems to be the way to go then.....

[sssurfer]

The ST2502 isn't dateless - it is a day/date movement (LH subdial day, RH subdial date)

Thanks for pointing out that, I did not realize what those subdials actually were.

But I was obviously meaning it is a datewheelless movement.

The PR function is easy to explain away as that is usually an add-on module anyway.

Completely agree.

I don't think we can truly rule out that the base movement isn't in fact an ST-25, but it would seem correct that while the ST-25xx movement may share some parts with the ST-18 2892 clone, they are far enough apart to be regarded as completely different movements.

Yes, I am beginning to think that the 090 movement might more likely be an evoultion of the ST-18 (some ST-18xx) rather than a ST-25 series.

I'll try to extend my search on that direction and see what comes out.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[omega1]

Hi sssurfer,

As I said in the other thread, the 090 movement is indeed an ST-25 based movement. The actual caliber is ST-2530. It used to be listed on Seagulls site, but I do not know why it is not any longer.

Interestingly enough, if you do a search for the ST-2530. you come up emply handed with the exception of THIS. The 3rd post down (from Chascomm) had links to the pictures of the 2530.

Also interesting is if you search for TY-2530, you come up with watches that have the same layout as the 090 as seen HERE, which goes back to what you were saying about them being re-named.

[sssurfer]

Also interesting is if you search for TY-2530, you come up with watches that have the same layout as the 090 as seen HERE

Thanks omega1! That is an exceptional find and now you have me completely converted to the 2530 thesis.

Now, if only we could find the specs of the ST/TY-2530!...

My apologies to r11co for this hijacking. In my defense I can only say that this is a search that all 090 owners might benefit from.

[Pugwash]

Is this any use?

Pugwash's Seagull reference page

[sssurfer]

Is this any use?

Pugwash's Seagull reference page

Thanks for chiming in, Pugwash.

Unfortunately, already checked extensively.

[baltic]

I am now thinking, should I rejoice in the prodigal returning, or sell it on for someone else to enjoy?!

If I were you I'd wear it and get some enjoyment from it, you've waited long enough!!

[r11co]

If I were you I'd wear it and get some enjoyment from it, you've waited long enough!!

Nicely put back on track

I was thinking the same last night, but I've had a hankering for a (proper sapphire and lume) Railmaster ever since I saw TTK's in the metal and I've ran out of slots in my watch box......

[lanikai]

This watch has a story, and its a bit like the old street sweeper's story - the one about the broom he's been using since the day he started. Three new heads and two new handles later, but it's the same broom....

Bought this on a whim as part of a group buy Kostas set up with Silix maybe 18 months ago. It was the watch I had on the day I met JTB for the first time as we got together so I can hand over his vintage military PAM out of the group buy package. Originally it had a SS bracelet, which was superb and probably the most impressive part of the watch. To be honest it was cheap, and it showed in the rest of the watch - mineral crystal and non-existent lume. This was the lesser-grade of the two versions of this watch that are available. Thankfully both carry the excellent Seagull ST-25 (2892 clone) movement.

I wore it a fair bit (including on my trip to Monte Carlo last year), then decided after some persuasion from folks in here to have it re-lumed by Mark (Finepics). It was September and the beginning of when Mark was starting to get overloaded with work. The watch was away some time. When it returned the transformation to the dial and hands was outstanding. Having that cheeky little extra complication PR hand glowing away there was just so cute looking

Unfortunately, Mark had lost the original CG. He had done his best to fit another but it didn't match the non-standard Silix case. He offered to replace the CG, and failing that he would re-case the entire watch, so I sent it back.

Now, I'd been without the watch for months by this point so was falling well and truly out of love with it. The excellent bracelet was still in my possession so I decided to liquidate it.

I waited and waited while Mark got the new case, and boy did he do me a favour. The watch returned with the up-spec case - sapphire crystal and accurate CG, as well as no unpleasant casting marks between the lugs, unlike the previous.

I decided I would buy a strap for it. I would go for an up-spec calf leather rep strap from Silix and order it to be delivered with the Planet Ocean rubber strap that was promised to be 'on the market soon'.

Months passed with my strap order pending and this watch sitting hidden in my watch box.

Eventually the PO rubber strap was announced and my order went in. The straps arrive, but the deployant I asked for for the PAM strap was too small (20mm instead of 22mm). At this point I thought me and my 090 were destined never to be connected again.

I eventually managed to trade the deployant for a polished buckle that matches the polished case of the 090 perfectly (thanks 4fun!)

So, here she is, transformed.

I am now thinking, should I rejoice in the prodigal returning, or sell it on for someone else to enjoy?!

So the question is...... if someone else were to enjoy this fine materpiece of Horology; what would it take for that enjoyment?????

[HauteHippie]

Nice thread, guys! Lots of interesting discussion here... And the 90 is now growing on me...

[ajoesmith]

You say finepics got you a new case, does it have the date pusher on the side of the case at the 8 oclock position??

The reason im asking is that i got this watch and planned to swap the case for a regular PAM case without the date pusher as the gen doesnt have the date pusher. Well, it didnt work as the PAM 090 case is slightly thicker than the normal PAM case and so the stem didnt fit properly.