Bell and Ross from Paul

[eddhead]

Paul has this posted on the collector thread.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...mp;#entry262717

Advertised as an automatic eta 2892 movement for $199. Am I missing something or is this "Little White Lies'" redux?

[FxrAndy]

I spell something, some thing earthy

[elprimerozen]

Oooohh an ETA???...and 199$...maybe its only for the movement!He he!

[COOP]

There are other dealers claiming this as well, I think King and others. Plus some are claiming eta copy. All sounds pretty fishy give the past on this watch.

[olivia]

But we didn't say swiss 2892.

[luisik]

I think you guys are getting to much accustomed to pay $300 for watches that are worth only $200. now i uderstand why some dealers charge us as if we were stupid.

[FxrAndy]

I think you guys are getting to much accustomed to pay $300 for watches that are worth only $200. now i uderstand why some dealers charge us as if we were stupid.

Sorry i dont follow you, what!

[luisik]

It's easy FxrAndy.

it has become the time where some of you are surprised to pay $199 for a swiss ETA movement rep, when it should be the regular cost of 90% nice quality reps.

I will give you a personal experience: Last December my swiss ETA Seamaster Pro got it's rotor damaged, so I took my watch to the usual jeweler/watchsmith who takes care of my reps from almost 6 years ago. After checking the movement, he adviced me to place a new ETA, as this one had some other spoiled issues beside the rotor. I agreed with him, so he placed a new swiss ETA 2836 for a total amount of

[FxrAndy]

I see now.

That is a good price, i would be happy to pay that if a new movement was warrented. I see also what you mean about an honest price too.

We are talking about a 2892 here though and they are a bit more pricy, i would be very surprised it it was an ETA 2892, no mater whether it was made in china or the moon

[r11co]

Have to remember I paid on April 2006 $199 for that Seamaster Pro, wich is an almost perfect rep, but the lack of double AR coating (it's just a single sided one).

When will people let go if this idea that everyone genuine watch has double-sided anti-reflective coatings?

The genuine Omega Seamaster Pro you speak of currently comes with single sided (inside) AR coating only. At one time the genuine was sold with no AR coating at all!!!!!

[luisik]

When will people let go if this idea that everyone genuine watch has double-sided anti-reflective coatings?

The genuine Omega Seamaster Pro you speak of currently comes with single sided (inside) AR coating only. At one time the genuine was sold with no AR coating at all!!!!!

Then I am more than happy you corrected me. I paid $199 for what you call now SUPER REP with an original Swiss ETA movement. What is the use of us in this forum then, when so many of our fellow members agree in paying $400 for the same quality reps ?

[Chronus]

When will people let go if this idea that everyone genuine watch has double-sided anti-reflective coatings?

The genuine Omega Seamaster Pro you speak of currently comes with single sided (inside) AR coating only. At one time the genuine was sold with no AR coating at all!!!!!

I concur.

[deltatahoe]

What is the use of us in this forum then, when so many of our fellow members agree in paying $400 for the same quality reps ?

like pugwash, i'm getting tired of everyone complaining about people buying expensive reps. first off, have you ever seen/held/worn a hublot big bang rep, or compared it to a genuine (which is a $8k+ watch)? or even a breitling chronomat evolution rep for that matter (which is less than $300 shipped from most dealers)? if not, i suggest you quit making claims about their supposed quality relative to some watch you bought back in april 2006 for $200.

you are making sweeping generalizations, basically calling everyone who buys these watches fools. do you really want to be that guy?

deltatahoe

[luisik]

like pugwash, i'm getting tired of everyone complaining about people buying expensive reps. first off, have you ever seen/held/worn a hublot big bang rep, or compared it to a genuine (which is a $8k+ watch)? or even a breitling chronomat evolution rep for that matter (which is less than $300 shipped from most dealers)? if not, i suggest you quit making claims about their supposed quality relative to some watch you bought back in april 2006 for $200.

you are making sweeping generalizations, basically calling everyone who buys these watches fools. do you really want to be that guy?

deltatahoe

Please, don't get tired of price complainings, or our hobby will be done very quickly. When i joined "these" forums, back in 2003 at the old RWG, I already had suffered from those super AAA+ swiss replicas sites wich were charging $1,000 for what i found it was possible to buy for $110. Members from those old times not only were very much concerned about the quality of the reps, but also to be not scamed by unfair prices from super duper dealers.

From those times, since 2005, i have been travelling because of job issues to China-Guangzhou twice a year, so i got to see by myself what are the real prices of what you are offered here, and I can assure you that from 8 months ago prices of our dealers here and there are not logical at all.

Yes, I have seen ALL those super reps at hand by myself, and can confirm they are not 4 times better done or 4 times more accurate to their genuine cousins or have 4 times better mechanisms than those so many great reps we have for much less money.

yes, I still want to be that guy who wants everybody to have the best reps at the best fairy prices, because i think these forums should keep being not only a place to share pictures, but also the place where to find advice and protection for all of us.

[geo1nah2a]

-snip-

From those times, since 2005, i have been travelling because of job issues to China-Guangzhou twice a year, so i got to see by myself what are the real prices of what you are offered here, and I can assure you that from 8 months ago prices of our dealers here and there are not logical at all.

Does this mean that the prices of all rep's have gone up in Guangzhou too? maybe just the price of super reps? Can you please elaborate?

[FxrAndy]

It does not matter to us what the price is in china as we are not there! This place is the mall we visit and see what the shop windows have to offer, if there was a cheeper mall just down the street that i could go to i would, I cant! so this is were i do my shopping. If i travelled to China twice a year i may well do my shopping there, but i dont.

And how can

quote

Yes, I have seen ALL those super reps at hand by myself, and can confirm they are not 4 times better done or 4 times more accurate to their genuine cousins

end quote, who said this how can a rep be better or more accurate than the gen. Calm down.

[geo1nah2a]

It does not matter to us what the price is in china as we are not there! This place is the mall we visit and see what the shop windows have to offer, if there was a cheeper mall just down the street that i could go to i would, I cant! so this is were i do my shopping. If i travelled to China twice a year i may well do my shopping there, but i dont.

You are correct, this piece of information will not change the way we are buying things. It is out of curiosity Inquiring minds want to know.

who said this how can a rep be better or more accurate than the gen. Calm down.

I think he meant to say " they are not 4 times better done or 4 times more accurate to first reps we were offered when we entered this forum" . I am not supporting this view, but it looks he was not trying to compare reps to gens, but reps to super reps.

[deltatahoe]

since 2005, i have been travelling because of job issues to China-Guangzhou twice a year, so i got to see by myself what are the real prices of what you are offered here, and I can assure you that from 8 months ago prices of our dealers here and there are not logical at all.

Yes, I have seen ALL those super reps at hand by myself

so you're saying that you've been to china in the last six months and found both the hublot big bang and breitling chronomat evolution reps? and you're saying that these particular reps were selling in the markets for the same prices as the other reps?

many of our trusted collectors have said that even they cannot get access to some of these reps. and yet you're saying you have been in the market and have seen them selling these reps for the same prices as all of our other reps?

i'm calling bullsh!t.

deltatahoe

[slay]

so you're saying that you've been to china in the last six months and found both the hublot big bang and breitling chronomat evolution reps? and you're saying that these particular reps were selling in the markets for the same prices as the other reps?

many of our trusted collectors have said that even they cannot get access to some of these reps. and yet you're saying you have been in the market and have seen them selling these reps for the same prices as all of our other reps?

i'm calling bullsh!t.

deltatahoe

i'm calling bullsh!te! You know WHY other dealers cannot get access? Because certain dealers probably made a deal with the factory, so they can overcharge A LOT. 700$ for a HBB is CRAZY! With a cheap asian movement. I can get a gen watch with 7750 for less than 500$. A GENUINE Tag Heuer Carrera with GENUINE ETA7750 can be had for about 1200$. You know how much the new IWC rep costs with swiss eta? Yes, almost 1100$. Add 100$ and you can buy a real Tag Heuer.

You know what one of the cartell dealers charges for the SFSO with ETA movement? 330$ plus shipping. You know what the SAME piece costs with an asian movement? about 130$ incoluding shipping (which already includes a markup by the dealer). So we have a 200$ difference here. As it was already mentioned, you can get an ETA movement like that installed including EUROPEAN (!!!) labor for as little as 100$. Its not like the SFSO houses a very rare ultra high end eta movement.

Paul used to sell subs with ETA movements for 109$. I doubt the movement alone cost him 100$. In fact I know that those reps sell for about 25-40$ on the market in China. 100$ is a fair price for a watch that sells in china for 25-40$.

700$ is a rip off! No matther how "good" you think the metal feels. CNC is always CNC. Its probably much more difficutlt to replicate a Breitling case than the HBB case (which is a very simple case).

Idealwatches and Bestswiss are proscribed over here, because they overcharge IN THE SAME F'IN MANNER. Get a grip dude

[deltatahoe]

@slay, what's funny about your tirade is that i don't disagree with your theory about why other collectors don't have access to these watches. it's a pretty likely argument.

my whole point was that i think luisik is full of sh!t in saying that he's seen the hublot big bang and breitling chronomat evolution reps for sale in the markets at the same prices as our other reps. if this were the case, some new collector would realize that they could make a nice profit by selling them to us at a price lower than the inflated prices of our existing collectors.

and your point that what's going on with the prices on super reps is the same as idealwatches or bestswiss is an apples and oranges comparison -- those sites sell watches that can be freely bought on the markets for $100 or less for $1,000 or more. my point is that you can't buy these watches in the markets at deeply discounted prices -- they just aren't available. the factory that is making these watches probably finally realized -- hey, i'm the only source for these popular, well repped watches -- i can charge higher prices.

the whole point of pugwash's thread that i linked to earlier is just that -- they CAN charge higher prices, and people will continue buy the watches.

deltatahoe

[luisik]

my whole point was that i think luisik is full of sh!t in saying that he's seen the hublot big bang and breitling chronomat evolution reps for sale in the markets at the same prices as our other reps....

... they CAN charge higher prices, and people will continue buy the watches.

deltatahoe

Never said that. Please read what i wrote.

HBB is much more expensive in chinese markets than many other reps. I have to agree that there seems to be some kind of "cartel"... probably some dealers got to be shareholders of a factory.. would bet for that

If you search well, and have a few contacts, a "noobmariner" can be found there for about $60, and the HBB can be found fo about $230. Very big difference, but also in my opinion an abusive overcharging at some trusted dealers selling prices, when they don't even include shipping. In fact, theses dealers also charge a benefit for the shipping cost (!!!)

People can buy from where they want, and you can feel comfortable being scammed just because you are the first having something, or just because of ignorance of a different source. Bestswiss keeps doing very good business, and sure their customers are very happy. George and Josh customers also are.

@FxrAndy, you should be cared about what prices things have in their origin, otherwise you wouldn't be able to know when you are paying a right price for something. Information is always important, in any matter of life, as it helps you to make correct decitions. New malls are open at our hand every day. It's up to you to be open enough to their offers and sometimes to take small risks.

Anyway, if you feel happy with these overpricing, and you do believe this "super reps" are really super, please keep happy. Reps are not the most important thing in the world, so i won't be for hours trying to convince anybody about anything.

I just share the few things i know, please don't use them if you think they are completely useless for your life and let's be happy all of us

[deltatahoe]

HBB is much more expensive in chinese markets than many other reps. I have to agree that there seems to be some kind of "cartel"... probably some dealers got to be shareholders of a factory.. would bet for that

If you search well, and have a few contacts, a "noobmariner" can be found there for about $60, and the HBB can be found fo about $230. Very big difference, but also in my opinion an abusive overcharging at some trusted dealers selling prices, when they don't even include shipping. In fact, theses dealers also charge a benefit for the shipping cost (!!!)

now this is helpful information. so let's say you can get a noobmariner for $110 shipped. that is a 83% markup over your stated cost of $60. i paid $418 shipped for my HBB; that is a 81% markup over your stated cost. based on these numbers some fool could try to argue that you're actually getting a better deal on the HBB given it is a lower markup, but these numbers are skewed given shipping cost makes up a higher percentage of the total cost for the noobmariner.

so let's say the actual shipping cost (i agree with you that some dealers are probably making a profit on their EMS shipping charge of $30) is $20. thus, for the $110 noobmariner, the actual cost to the dealer is $80, resulting in only 37.5% markup over cost. for the $418 HBB, assuming the same $20 shipping cost, the actual cost to the dealer is $250, resulting in a 67.2% markup over cost.

if your information is correct (i have no reason to believe it is not) our collectors are making a significantly higher margin on the HBB than the noobmariner. is that a huge surprise? not really. i think anyone can surmise that ttk (or any other collector for that matter) can't be making too much on a $110 watch.

however, i would be surprised if a new collector doesn't come along at some point and sell the HBB for a 37-45% markup over cost and make a nice profit doing so. in my mind, if these watches really are available to everyone at the markets, then the prices will drop -- it's inevitable. the bigger / real concern for me is the possibility that the maker is not allowing everyone to have access to the products, which allows the price inflation to occur.

anyways, i've found this interesting -- thanks for posting about your experiences in the markets luisik.

Reps are not the most important thing in the world, so i won't be for hours trying to convince anybody about anything.

I just share the few things i know, please don't use them if you think they are completely useless for your life and let's be happy all of us

hopefully you don't have any hard feelings -- i appreciate your insight and opinions.

regards,

deltatahoe

[futureace]

deltahoe,

Why do you keep referring to "collectors" or "our collectors"? These people are dealers. If anything, it is us on this board (the end customers) who might be considered collectors (If we buy enough).

Just asking.

Cheers

[futureace]

Oops,

Sorry about your name in the above post. Typed quickly and omitted a "ta" in there. No offense meant.

Cheers.

[geo1nah2a]

deltahoe,

Why do you keep referring to "collectors" or "our collectors"? These people are dealers. If anything, it is us on this board (the end customers) who might be considered collectors (If we buy enough).

Just asking.

Cheers

There are no dealers present as DEALERS in this forum.. See a dealer section? Nope. Reviews of deals, yes. But no offerings. This is measure in order not to shut down the forum under pressure of gen manufacturers.

Edited June 15, 2007 by geo1nah2a