Omega Seamaster –sub-standard bracelet and sub-standard service from Joshua

[Indyclmbr]

norbert

New arrival

Group: Members

Posts: 2

Joined: 23-March 06

Member No.: 977

norbert

Truth is that Joshua is probably the best replica dealer around maybe only river and EL (and neil if you dont insult him too badly) and a few others gives equal or better customer service around here. I am sure Josh will fix this for you if your are polite and send him the item in return.

Regards

Gran

I gotta go with Gran on this one-Joshua, River and EL are solid as a rock. I'd add Jay and Angel and King to that. There are a few things I've learned in the short time I've been collecting reps. One, do your homework. It sounds like you did Norbert, finding RWG, Josh and asking for recommendations but maybe missed the Omega quality discussion. Two, be patient. Again, it sounds like you did this, to a degree. Three, I'm going with be patient again because this hobby requires loads of it and because sometimes things happen and there is no quick fix. Four, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Perhaps a better way to have approached this would have been to ask "Hey, has anyone heard from Joshua. I picked up an Omega from him that has some quality issues and I haven't been able to get a reply out of him. Joshua, if you see this, email me or PM me. Thanks." Then you would have a whole slew of people trying to help you resolve the problem rather than call into question your motives.

Just my two cents, which is worth considerably less than that.

Hope you get it resolved. Be sure to let us know. I have every confidence in Joshua.

Climb on.

[norbert]

I gotta go with Gran on this one-Joshua, River and EL are solid as a rock. I'd add Jay and Angel and King to that. There are a few things I've learned in the short time I've been collecting reps. One, do your homework. It sounds like you did Norbert, finding RWG, Josh and asking for recommendations but maybe missed the Omega quality discussion. Two, be patient. Again, it sounds like you did this, to a degree. Three, I'm going with be patient again because this hobby requires loads of it and because sometimes things happen and there is no quick fix. Four, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Perhaps a better way to have approached this would have been to ask "Hey, has anyone heard from Joshua. I picked up an Omega from him that has some quality issues and I haven't been able to get a reply out of him. Joshua, if you see this, email me or PM me. Thanks." Then you would have a whole slew of people trying to help you resolve the problem rather than call into question your motives.

Just my two cents, which is worth considerably less than that.

Hope you get it resolved. Be sure to let us know. I have every confidence in Joshua.

Climb on.

Very nice and helpful reply. Thank you very much.

I do appreciate that my title is a bit to forward, but I wanted to discuss. Joshua is far to well respected (including by myself!!) to get harmed in his business in this forum as NARDIS has suggested.

I personally did not start this topic to get a new bracelet or anything material from Josh (as R11CO has hinted), I also did not want to abuse this board for personal problems,

I simply wanted to

A: Find out why Josh has not answered

B: Discuss a very interesting issue

A was answered by the members (His email adress was hijacked). That certainly surprised me and I apologized to Josh

B: It has started a very interesting discussion and I believe that is what this (fantastic) board is all about.

I would like to thank everybody involved (except R11CO of course) for this

[r11co]

I would like to thank everybody involved (except R11CO of course) for this

I was first to back your opinion of the watch, and to treat with caution your opinion of the dealer. If you can't understand that then, well, poor you!

There is a faction in this group that dispenses with the flowery language and the blowing of smoke up peoples' asses telling them they are absolutely positively right, only to hypocritically point out where they are wrong.

Ask TTK!! We speak it like it is!

Your snivelling last post only highlights what a plonker you are. I stand by what I said that you registered here simply to go off on one about Josh and how hard-done by you think you were. Had you registered and looked about a bit or even bothered to do a search you would know that the issue of the deteriorating quality of Seamaster reps has already been discussed.

Had you looked for Josh's last dozen posts you would also have known about his email problem.

Don't going playing the gent now.....

I reckon, he does not want to stand up for this below quality product.

After reading that, I could understand perfectly if Josh was to let you stew for a bit....

Edited April 26, 2006 by r11co

[cwai02]

Before all the "joshua needs to fix it" complaint, maybe you should bring it to the watchsmith, see if he has proper tools to resize your bracelet.

I got a few Omega watches that I wasn't able to resize myself. I brought it to the watchsmith and he resized it for me. It's like $5 USD.

Anyway, it's your job to do reserach on flaws. Joshua just can't list all the problems of the watch before he sells it to you.

I haven't bought anything from Joshua, but his reviews are very positive.

My suggestion is to go to a watchsmith, see if he can resize it for you.

If he can't do it, you may ask Joshua, see if he can send you a replacement bracelet.

Edited April 26, 2006 by cwai02

[norbert]

I was first to back your opinion of the watch, and to treat with caution your opinion of the dealer. If you can't understand that then, well, poor you!

There is a faction in this group that dispenses with the flowery language and the blowing of smoke up peoples' asses telling them they are absolutely positively right, only to hypocritically point out where they are wrong.

Ask TTK!! We speak it like it is!

Your snivelling last post only highlights what a plonker you are. I stand by what I said that you registered here simply to go off on one about Josh and how hard-done by you think you were. Had you registered and looked about a bit or even bothered to do a search you would know that the issue of the deteriorating quality of Seamaster reps has already been discussed.

Had you looked for Josh's last dozen posts you would also have known about his email problem.

Don't going playing the gent now.....

After reading that, I could understand perfectly if Josh was to let you stew for a bit....

Interesting post R2 (like most of your contributions).

Ad1: Review your own language first and the way you approach other members

Ad2: I believe it was you who questioned the quality of the watch and the price in your first mail, knowing who the dealer is

Ad3: Not everybody has the time (like you) to permantly browse through the board and not miss a single information

Ad4: If the "deteriorating quality of the Seamaster" is so well known, why did Joshua personally reccommend me this watch?

(and here I quote his email: Joshua: "The other is the Omega Seamaster Pro and GMT.. Omega watches, SS range,.In my opinion is better made in genuine and in reps than Rolex "

Ad5: I have replaced the strap long ago with a leather strap "letting me stew" would have no effect on anybody

R2, I say it again. If all your contribution to this discussion is hobby-psychology and insults, stay out and go to the pub.

[norbert]

Before all the "joshua needs to fix it" complaint, maybe you should bring it to the watchsmith, see if he has proper tools to resize your bracelet.

I got a few Omega watches that I wasn't able to resize myself. I brought it to the watchsmith and he resized it for me. It's like $5 USD.

I haven't bought anything from Joshua, but his reviews are very positive.

My suggestion is to go to a watchsmith, see if he can resize it for you.

If he can't do it, you may ask Joshua, see if he can send you a replacement bracelet.

Thank you for this reply. I have left out some developments to make the initial post not too long:

I had initial exchanges with Joshua on this topic. He was helpful. I brought it to my watchsmith, who needed 5 days to get them out!! He charged me 30 USD for it (friendly price). He is one of these old guys, who like to fiddle. Otherwise, he said, he would have refused the job. He said: Nice watch, but terrible bracelet.

Anyway, it's your job to do reserach on flaws. Joshua just can't list all the problems of the watch before he sells it to you.

Agree: But mind, Joshua sold me this watch as a personal reccommendation

(again the email: "The other is the Omega Seamaster Pro and GMT.. Omega watches, SS range,.In my opinion is better made in genuine and in reps than Rolex")

[Bansenshukai]

Norbert:

1) Joshua has personally absorbed a $930 hit from a watch he sent but was somehow "intercepted" during transit. This is my personal experience with him after the purchase of about 35 reps (to date).

2) You are overly sensitive. But, then again, I might overly resilient. What you considered "aggressive", or otherwise, angry responses are simply "forward" responses (kind of like, as you admittedly characterized, your topic's title).

3) I imagine that grown adults can exchange differing opinions here without feeling like they must be defensive at all time. If you get some, dust yourself off and offer a counter-point in an eloquent, fact-based manner.

4) Let me guess, you didn't play dodge ball in high school right? (I'm wondering ... will you become angry and defensive at this last statement, or will you accept it in a good-natured manner?)

De Oppresso Liber!

[DRVJA]

I HAVE PURCHASED OVER A DOZEN WATCHES FROM JOSHUA FOR ME AND FRIENDS AND I HAVE HAD ONE PROBLEM.. I NEVER BROUGHT IT TO THE FORUM BECAUSE JOSHUA REPLACED THE WATCH NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I HAVE PURCHASED FROM 5 DIFFERENT DEALERS AND JOSHUA HAS BEEN THE BEST. GOOD FRIENDLY COMMUNICATION, SHIPPING INFORMATION, FAIR PRICE AND OUTSTANDING PRODUCT, BUT WHATS MOST IMPORTANT WHEN I HAD A PROBLEM HE FIXED IT LIKE A GENTLEMAN AND I DID NOT HAVE TO BRING DIRTY LAUNDRY TO ANY ONE OF THE FORUMS. I AM SURE THAT IF JOSHUA WAS PROPERLY NOTIFIED HE WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

[Nebakanezzar]

Hardly my job to check if he is still using the same adress he used while I was buying 5 watches.

well, i was with you untill the above post. your response is rather ignorant. in life [censored] happens, Joshua has no controll over his e-mail being hijacked, all he can do is inform us of it, and give an alternate mode of contact. which he did, I even remember seeing his post on the e-mail issue.

I have never delt with joshua, But i have delt with Eddie who is as highly praised as Joshua. they also charge more than other dealers.

I bought one watch from Eddie, did all my homework asked all the right questions, and he was the only one who told me he could get me what I wanted, but he charges like $75 more than any other dealer I had contacted. but he came highly recomended so I figured WTF, but when the watch came, it was the same as what the other dealers told me they could do...and not what he told me he could do. and like your expereience, he answerd all my e-mails before the sale promptly, but after the sale he rarley answerd, and never took care of the problem. Fortunatly there are great members on this (actuatly RWG I) board who, after reading my complaint, helped me out with the problem...and it was ultimatly taken care of....with no thanx to Eddie i might add.

Just my experience.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Nebakanezzar

[norbert]

I HAVE PURCHASED OVER A DOZEN WATCHES FROM JOSHUA FOR ME AND FRIENDS AND I HAVE HAD ONE PROBLEM.. I NEVER BROUGHT IT TO THE FORUM BECAUSE JOSHUA REPLACED THE WATCH NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I HAVE PURCHASED FROM 5 DIFFERENT DEALERS AND JOSHUA HAS BEEN THE BEST. GOOD FRIENDLY COMMUNICATION, SHIPPING INFORMATION, FAIR PRICE AND OUTSTANDING PRODUCT, BUT WHATS MOST IMPORTANT WHEN I HAD A PROBLEM HE FIXED IT LIKE A GENTLEMAN AND I DID NOT HAVE TO BRING DIRTY LAUNDRY TO ANY ONE OF THE FORUMS. I AM SURE THAT IF JOSHUA WAS PROPERLY NOTIFIED HE WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

I thoroughly enjoyed todays discussion.

I am a Consultant Surgeon and on call today. I had some time. This discussion was very interesting. I every now and again research the forum, but never contributed. That was an interesting discussion!!

I will not review this threat any further as I will be on travel from now:

Thanks for everybody contributing. I know precisely where I stand

R11co: I actually enjoyed our argument. I think your contributions were brilliant!! I just liked to shoot back every now and again. I hope you took it the same.

Joshua: I believe that this discussion has not harmed you. If you see all those people defending and refereeing for you just confirms what made me do business with you. YOU ARE THE BEST!! I look forward to further business. (But I would think twice before selling another bracelet like that)

DRVJA, Nouns Defions: I like it how you all guarantee for Joshua. I do not wash dirty laundry. What is the point in only bringing the good cases up in the Forum. This forum is powerful. You need positive and negative feedbacks on this forum.

No, I did not play Dodge-Ball because I am German.

ALL THE BEST,

Norbert

[Jos Nana]

Hi Norbert,

You mails probably did come in during the time my email addy got hijacked...It is my policy to reply to every single email, pm... I am sorry for the troubles and the communication breakdown.

Yes I did recommend this watch to you .. I recommend based on the merits on the closeness to genuine factor.., working GMT, overall very well made and the positve feedback I have from others who has bought this watch from me..

I do not know if the genuine watch's bracalet is made in pin or screws... But for the rep of this watch along with many others in reps and also in genuine, this bracelet is made in pins.. Bracelet is pins is not a measure that the rep is bad quality... It is just it is made this way..

I have also advise on sending the watch to a jeweller for re-sizing... If the bracelet is mess up, I can always send you a replacement bracelet.. But to keep insisting that this rep should be made in screwed bracelet and must have a screwed bracelet will not bring you anywhere...It will only brig you frustration and lead you to this...

This is an hobby, relax and enjoy the reps as they were.. Drop me a mail and let me know what you need.. I can't get you a screwed bracelet for sure..but the same one you received ..No problems at all...

Thanks

joshua

Edited April 27, 2006 by Jos Nana

[ekhunter]

Sorry, I don't own an Omega

You don't know what you are missing!

[TJGladeRaider]

Does that really matter? I press the -reply- button like I did with the last 20 emails we exchanged.

Hardly my job to check if he is still using the same adress he used while I was buying 5 watches.

The dissappointing fact is that I did all my homework. I found this forum, found a highly regarded dealer, ask him for his personal reccomendation----and still get a stupid quality.

Does not really work on the replica-market credibility.

Up to this post I was wondering how you could have had a negative experience with Joshua - I have bought more than a dozen reps from him and he's always been great to deal with. I have had minor problems a couple of times and he's dealt with it straight away.

In fact, one of my favorite watches that I got from him is the Omega SMP GMT - I also bought it on his recommendation.

When the superbly accurate watch turned out to be waterproof - I tested it to 132 feet - I replaced the band with sharksin. I replaced it simply because almost all my watches have exotic bands and deployment clasps. I like the fact that they never fail, and they are a lot lighter and much more comfortable.

I will tell you this. I have bought a lot of reps, and I have dealt with a lot of dealers - if you aren't happy with Joshua, give it up. Your expectations are unrealistic.

Bill

[norbert]

Hi Norbert,

You mails probably did come in during the time my email addy got hijacked...It is my policy to reply to every single email, pm... I am sorry for the troubles and the communication breakdown.

Yes I did recommend this watch to you .. I recommend based on the merits on the closeness to genuine factor.., working GMT, overall very well made and the positve feedback I have from others who has bought this watch from me..

I do not know if the genuine watch's bracalet is made in pin or screws... But for the rep of this watch along with many others in reps and also in genuine, this bracelet is made in pins.. Bracelet is pins is not a measure that the rep is bad quality... It is just it is made this way..

I have also advise on sending the watch to a jeweller for re-sizing... If the bracelet is mess up, I can always send you a replacement bracelet..

...It will only brig you frustration and lead you to this...

This is an hobby, relax and enjoy the reps as they were.. Drop me a mail and let me know what you need.. I can't get you a screwed bracelet for sure..but the same one you received ..No problems at all...

Thanks

joshua

But to keep insisting that this rep should be made in screwed bracelet and must have a screwed bracelet will not bring you anywhere

...

Did you actually read my initial post at all???

[norbert]

If you would be happy with a poor bracelet that breaks after a week in a 250 USD watch than I must say you are a lovely customer.

I do not think that my expectation to get a decent quality for decent money are absolutely inappropriate.

Further: My expectations towards this product would be much lower, if it would not hae been bought on "personal reccommendation" by the (highly respected) dealer !!

[r11co]

Did you actually read my initial post at all???

No need to be sarcastic!

For general information (ie. not directed at anyone) - the correct construction of the Seamaster bracelets is that the links should be held together by pins and not screws. Contrary to popular thinking this is not a sign of cheaper construction as the pins are not the typical 'split' type but are in fact very well engineered hi-tensile pins held in place by specially shaped tubes that grip the pins at an indentation approx. 1/3 along their length. This, along with slip tubes concealed in the links allows the bracelet to 'flex' without the associated risks of screws which can (and often do) work loose. The pins are extremely strong along the axis they are designed to 'support' the bracelet, but are also prone to shattering if you attempt to extract them from the bracelet in the wrong direction, because of their hi-tensile construction.

I can understand why a rep factory would want to dispense with this mode of securing the links as it is costly to temper steel this way and makes construction of the band more labour intensive. Earlier SMP reps used exactly the same dimension and quality of parts as the genuine items - this I know because I have used real parts to replace rep ones when they have become damaged (which is why I know about the shattering!!)

Edited April 27, 2006 by r11co

[norbert]

No need to be sarcastic!

For general information (ie. not directed at anyone) - the correct construction of the Seamaster bracelets is that the links should be held together by pins and not screws. Contrary to popular thinking this is not a sign of cheaper construction as the pins are not the typical 'split' type but are in fact very well engineered hi-tensile pins held in place by specially shaped tubes that grip the pins at an indentation approx. 1/3 along their length. This, along with slip tubes concealed in the links allows the bracelet to 'flex' without the associated risks of screws which can (and often do) work loose. The pins are extremely strong along the axis they are designed to 'support' the bracelet, but are also prone to shattering if you attempt to extract them from the bracelet in the wrong direction, because of their hi-tensile construction.

I can understand why a rep factory would want to dispense with this mode of securing the links as it is costly to temper steel this way and makes construction of the band more labour intensive. Earlier SMP reps used exactly the same dimension and quality of parts as the genuine items - this I know because I have substitued rep parts for the real ones when they have become damaged (which is why I know about the shattering!!)

Thanks R11co!! Quality reply (not sarcastic).

But you see what I mean. We discuss since 24 hrs about the low quality screws in the Rep SMP and then the dealer contributes as above.

It certainly looks like the lion share of efforts in the Rep business goes into the movement with high end ETA etc. .

My impression as a newbee is that a bit more investment in the bracelet (and straps! Some of those leather imitations look ridiculous on a 2000 USD watch)

The bracelet contributes a lot the the overall impression of the Rep. I do not see the point of investing hundreds of USD in the movement and 10 in the bracelet.

Well known problem I guess.

[mikellem]

norbert & nardis,

I think you both have blown this problem out of proprotion. I do not know how long either of you have been buying reps, except my honest opinion is....You Both Are out of line. Joshua Can NOT always control the quality of pins in bands. This is getting rediculous.

IMHO, I think this should be dropped right here....and leave Josh alone. Take you watch to a repair shop and fix your band.

If you guys are going to complain over something so small, then both of you should not buy reps. I have been around the forums for awhile now, and lets let this post DIE.

Thank You,

Mikellem

[norbert]

norbert & nardis,

I think you both have blown this problem out of proprotion. I do not know how long either of you have been buying reps, except my honest opinion is....You Both Are out of line. Joshua Can NOT always control the quality of pins in bands. This is getting rediculous.

IMHO, I think this should be dropped right here....and leave Josh alone. Take you watch to a repair shop and fix your band.

If you guys are going to complain over something so small, then both of you should not buy reps. I have been around the forums for awhile now, and lets let this post DIE.

Thank You,

Mikellem

Good idea Mikellem

I also have got an idea for you.

Why dont you change RWG.CC into Joshua-Fanclub.com ?

If members are not allowed to discuss faulty products from your idols, why do you call this a forum?

The Replica business is a business.

And as well as Joshua is generating loads of customers on this board he has to face some discussions about problems with his product.

Nobody needs useless advice like this ("bring it to a watchmaker!") from you

[By-Tor]

Just for the record: The 3rd gen Planet Ocean (that I used to own) had miniscule screws in the bracelet. However I treated them like pins because despite looking like screws they didn't "screw out". I suspect the new Omega rep models all use these same parts (can't be sure though).

Just take a hammer and pliers and resize the bracelet like they were pins. Worked for me without any problems.

[norbert]

Just for the record: The 3rd gen Planet Ocean (that I used to own) had miniscule screws in the bracelet. However I treated them like pins because despite looking like screws they didn't "screw out". I suspect the new Omega rep models all use these same parts (can't be sure though).

Just take a hammer and pliers and resize the bracelet like they were pins. Worked for me without any problems.

Thanks for joining in By-Tor!!

I was hoping that you would participate as the real Omega rep expert.

We were discussing this fact earlier C(HRONO 903 "I know what you mean but, the omega pins are not split pins, they are solid pegs that fit into a sleeve.")

So I double checked and the one I have actually has got screws and not pins that look like screws

[norbert]

Thanks for joining in By-Tor!!

I was hoping that you would participate as the real Omega rep expert.

We were discussing this fact earlier C(HRONO 903 "I know what you mean but, the omega pins are not split pins, they are solid pegs that fit into a sleeve.")

So I double checked and the one I have actually has got screws and not pins that look like screws

After my discussion on the Omega Seamaster, Joshua got involved and, being the real gentleman, we all know he is,

he has offered to take the watch back and refund without any question.

(But...as I have mentioned in previous mail, I will not take this offer, because I like the new arrangement with the blue sharkleather strap from Don)

I have to re-join the people who regard Joshua in the highest order

[Nebakanezzar]

Did you actually read my initial post at all???

the "[censored]" indicator is lit

[Richard Tracy]

the "[censored]" indicator is lit

Hey,... what did I do ???

[Bansenshukai]

While on the topic, I have two gen Omega SMPs (one mid-size and one full size). One of my friends ordered a rep Omega of the same model as my gen Omega SMP large. In comparison, I can say that the quality of rep is terrible as compared to, say, a $225 rep Rolex (as compared to a gen Rolex).

However, the Plante Oceans that are out now, are awesome.