PayPal Problems????

[GFish]

Could other members please describe the problems some have been having recently with pp? I've been away for a while and am just now hearing rumblings about bad experiences. Is it now completely safe to make payments through pp? I have used them in the past for numerous rep purchases with no problems whatsoever, and hope that good experience will continue in the future. Thanks so much for any information and all the best to everyone.

[owentrier]

Could other members please describe the problems some have been having recently with pp? I've been away for a while and am just now hearing rumblings about bad experiences. Is it now completely safe to make payments through pp? I have used them in the past for numerous rep purchases with no problems whatsoever, and hope that good experience will continue in the future. Thanks so much for any information and all the best to everyone.

pp permently close my account last week. They keep freezing my account..ask too many questions. Long story but been having some issued with them for quite some time.

Now how in the heck can I get a watch?

Any alternative transaction here?

[gran]

Never had any problems using pp and I consider pp the best and most convenient system for making and receiveing payments. But no system is perfect.

Regards

Gran

[SubFrog]

Well, pp has been a problem for me from the beginning. Since the first board and beyond.

I was scammed on eBay YEARS ago...like 1999 or 2000. They froze my account and to this day will not allow me to use my account. I honestly would understand if I WAS THE SCAMMER, but this happened to me and I am locked out?

So...about a year ago, I tried to open a NEW account...and somehow they figured out it was me and "Bang" I was cut off again stating that I have an unresolved issue. Due to this fact, I have to pick and choose amongst the NON pp dealers here...and sometimes that's a little tough. So, I'm limited as to what I can do here.

Thanks pp.

[gran]

Thanks pp.

I had no idea pp could be so unfair. If it makes you feel better Scott I will hate pp for doing this to you There must be some solution to this problem...would it help if you got an new account and VISA in a different bank than you are currently using and used that instead?

Regards

Gunnar

[that_watch_guy]

I was scammed on eBay YEARS ago...like 1999 or 2000. They froze my account and to this day will not allow me to use my account. I honestly would understand if I WAS THE SCAMMER, but this happened to me and I am locked out?

The same happened to me! I lost $1200 and they froze MY account! I sold something to a guy through eBay, sent it out USPS confirmed, he received it, and then told pp that he did not get it. I went to the post office to see if maybe it was delivered to the wrong place, but sure enough they had a copy of the same guy's signature on file! I submitted this information to pp, and they did not do anything. I was out $1200, so they basically closed my account.

I was also frauded as the buyer on one transaction. The goods simply never came, the guy stopped answering calls/emails. I had to call my credit card company, who yanked the money back from pp. This time I filed a report with the FBI, and about 3 years later, I finally got a letter in the mail telling me that they had arrested the idiot who ripped me off and that he was serving 18 months. I made a post about it some time ago on TRC.

Something that most people do not know is that despite that fact that your account may have been closed, it is fairly easy to setup another. In fact, I have one up and running right now. Simply use a different credit card with a different billing address. It doesn't even matter if the name is the same as your prior account. Use a different email address and you should be able to setup another one with minimal problems.

Edited April 30, 2006 by that_watch_guy

[Chronus]

Most dealers will probably accept Western Union or Moneybookers. Just ask next time you are dealing with them.

[SubFrog]

Thanks Gran...and Yes, Watch Guy,

I'm sure I could go to the extent of getting a new credit card, new bank, use a different address, or whatever it takes...but, I shouldn't have to.

In addition, due to the treatment I got...I care NOT to have an account with pp at this time. It seems they'll take your money, but as soon as you have a problem with them or a scam, you're out. No help, no nothing. So...I'm done with them (for now).

I guess that's why there is a website called NoPayPal

[Sharkbait]

Something that most people do not know is that despite that fact that your account may have been closed, it is fairly easy to setup another. In fact, I have one up and running right now. Simply use a different credit card with a different billing address. It doesn't even matter if the name is the same as your prior account. Use a different email address and you should be able to setup another one with minimal problems.

Another thing for pp users to think about. If you accept credit cards through pp, you will also be subject to the 2.9% (3.9% for int'l transactions) even if you are paid via debit from checking account or pp balance. My solution is to maintain two pp accounts. It requires two bank accounts and separate verified addresses and credit cards. But over time it is worth it. Just a matter of asking the buyer which method he is using as payment. Bank debit, pp balance or credit card. Then give him the pp ID that matches the payment method.

[buckeye]

I had a problem with them calling me because I did not put anything in the description line with my payment. They wanted to know what I bought, who I bought it from, etc.....I didn't answer their question, and I posted when it occurred. Seems like it happened to several others also....

[Guest leonado]

Dont get me started about those pp bastards again....my dispute with buyer has long been cleared yet they cant get their [censored] straight.

Just remember: once they have your cash in their hands, they can pretty much do with it what they want and you are left holding the short end of the stick....

L

[Jos Nana]

So can we jointly unite and dun used pp ?

No ... Most of them out there are too selfish and foolish.. cos they have not got problems "yet "and the "I only deal with dealers with pp kind of [censored] still rings loudly and blindly"...

How many of you has succesfully claim your money from pp if you are scammed ? probably 2 out 10.. Once a tracking no...true or fake, is registered on the transaction,,, you money will never get back to you..And if you are stupid enough to file a claim, the money will come out of the sellers account and goes to pp and stays there indefinitely..You lost your re-course with seller immediately and pp will not give you back the money cos they will tell you that delivery proof is given.

Such is the protection you are getting and the loophole for scammers to continue to scam you money.. Afterall if someone is in it to scam, they will not send you anytjing anyway.. File your cliams, the money has long being withdrawn and blew it on a couple of rounds in Vegas... Thereafter, use another credit card... Wala ! Scammer has another pp account again and can start scamming...

It is ironical that only honest traders and innocent buyers will always get hit by pp.. Not the scammers.. So much for the protection you are getting !

Given the choice, i will move to something else like E-gold, but can the members here accept ? Oh, I only deal with dealers with pp... Rite ?

Thanks

joshua

[gran]

Given the choice, i will move to something else like E-gold

Yes! We are a selfish lot

I can see that the potential problem is that the dealers that use pp gets more business than if a single dealer was using an alternative system. If E-gold is as easy to use as pp and there is less problems we could use that system, no problem for me, but I guess it would be an advantage if most dealers used the same system?

Regards

Gunnar

[Sharkbait]

So can we jointly unite and dun used pp ?

Given the choice, i will move to something else like E-gold, but can the members here accept ? Oh, I only deal with dealers with pp... Rite ?

Thanks

joshua

If I am dealing with a person I trust, and that includes a lot of the dealers on this forum, I have no problem with using Western Union or some other type of payment method. pp is only advantageous to me when dealing with an unknown dealer. The dealers on this forum have shown a willingness to adjust their pricing to accomodate the charges the buyers incure with WU. I do, however, have a slight problem with giving my banking information out to another online payment company. My thinking is the more that have that information, the larger the chances of compromise are.

[ryyannon]

I remember back in the pre-electronic payment days, there used to be something called International Money Orders.

I know that even these can be faked, but if available and on condition of a dealer accepting them (and waiting to ship until their account was actually funded by the money order) wouldn't this be a solution?

Bank-to-bank money transfers are probably the cheapest solution, but this involves using sensitive account information on both ends - and no recours from a credit card company if something goes wrong...

[trustywatchguy]

pp really SUCKXX

I have been contemplating DOING AWAY with pp because of the fact that pp can freeze your account with NO APPARENT REASON and they win everytime. All they need to do is to email you that they have reviewed you case and now you cannot appeal. Sorry... but your money is pp's now..

pp... Hell you should go.. =P

Andrew

[jens]

I remember back in the pre-electronic payment days, there used to be something called International Money Orders.

I know that even these can be faked, but if available and on condition of a dealer accepting them (and waiting to ship until their account was actually funded by the money order) wouldn't this be a solution?

Bank-to-bank money transfers are probably the cheapest solution, but this involves using sensitive account information on both ends - and no recours from a credit card company if something goes wrong...

International money orders still exists, however they are costly and incredible slow (check out bidpay.com).

I disagree with you concerning bank-to-bank transfer (also called wire transfer), it's actually the most secure way to transfer money internationally today. Yes, you have to know the recepients account number, name and adress, however this is exactly the same info you need for paying whatever bill via a bank already. Using SWIFT and IBAN info makes it very convenient and secure. But you don't have a third part like pp in between, who you can ask to take part in a possible conflict.

The only disadvantage is time, it typically takes 6-8 business days before it's posted at the receipients account (for abroad payments). I have used such transfers by many occations for huge amounts, and there has never been a single problem (it even works to/from the far east without problems ).

jens

[SubFrog]

So, why can't dealers just set up a simple shopping cart with a merchant account (Visa, Mastercard), etc.?

There are few ways to do this.

1) Get a merchant account at your bank to accept credit cards, set up a shopping cart online.

2) Use a service that has a shopping cart along with your merchant account (one time fee)

3) Use another service that does everything (merchant account, shopping cart, processing) (a fee and percentage from sales.)

It's possible...and I BET they'd get MORE sales than the pp button.

[Jos Nana]

So, why can't dealers just set up a simple shopping cart with a merchant account (Visa, Mastercard), etc.?

There are few ways to do this.

1) Get a merchant account at your bank to accept credit cards, set up a shopping cart online.

2) Use a service that has a shopping cart along with your merchant account (one time fee)

3) Use another service that does everything (merchant account, shopping cart, processing) (a fee and percentage from sales.)

It's possible...and I BET they'd get MORE sales than the pp button.

Getting a merchant for legit products is very easy... as long as you are happy with the fees and open up everyrthing you are doing to them... They will check your hosting company, too sloopy = no.. questionable =no.. they wil check the products you are selling.... branded = no unless you show them an authorised agreeement, not branded , made in china = no cos likely they are reps.... Your will need to registered a webiste url with them.... obviously you cant tell them www.buymyreps.com ? I have been working on this matter for a long time.. Till today no avail..

There are some companies who wants 11% as their commission... They can approved you overnight... 1 monthly payment back to you... Dare to try ? and yes 11% as opposed to the 4 to 5 %, they probably are launderng your money on their own legit websites and make the difference...

Thanks

Joshua

[that_watch_guy]

I hate pp with a passion, the only problem is that everyone I sell things to on the internet wants to use pp to pay for the goods. As for buying watches, I buy from two dealers, I don't pp either one of them, I wire money using western union or bank transfers, I've never had any problems with the dealers that I trust. In all honesty, when selling items on here and elsewhere, I really wouldn't mind receiveing a money order, or even driving to western union to pick up a wire transfer because it puts the money in my hand, no waiting time and no fees, plus it protects me as a seller more than pp does.

I can tell you guys from experience that merchant accounts have all of the same risks that pp does, plus more. I had merchant accounts at Wells Fargo and Bank of America, and believe me, any way that you can be ripped off through pp can also occur with a merchant account. As mentioned above, banks don't exactly hand out merchant accounts to people who are selling contraband either. Merchant accounts are freaking great for legitimate merchandise, but for this type of merchandise, I think it would just be asking for trouble. If a customer brought up a dispute, the merchant would most certainly lose all of their money and never recieve their product back. Dealers are in business to make money, and when making money becomes to troublesome, many dealers switch to Western Union as it is the only way they can be protected against idiot buyers.

If you buy and sell enough watches, you will have pp problems sooner or later, I guess we all just hope it's later and not sooner. All I can say is:

-Ship your merchandise using UPS or FEDEX with online tracking and keep all of the tracking numbers in case a buyer files a dispute

-As soon as money hits your pp account, withdraw it.

-Don't ship to unverified addresses

-Don't ship to countries known for fraud

-Don't buy from people who cannot provide you with feedback from others

-If you are buying from a new dealer, ask them for some tracking numbers of watches they have recently mailed out to customers, or ask them for references.

-Don't buy watches from people who seem to know nothing about what they are selling.

Just common sense stuff. I've had both pp accounts and merchant accounts long enough to know every way you can get frauded. I've had million of dollars pass through my merchant account in a year's time, and have been frauded on a few occasions as the seller. When you are dealing with faceless people on the internet, it's a risk you take I suppose.

Edited May 2, 2006 by that_watch_guy

[Jos Nana]

I-As soon as money hits your pp account, withdraw it.

Well said !

As for the withdrawing part, it is really down to luck factor.. pp takes 2 to 3 days to process your withdrawals.. Once the hammer comes down, all the withdrawals for the last 2 to 3 days will be reversed... For US bank accounts pp users, you will not be affected, but for us, international account holders , the exchange rate used to reverse the money back to my own pp account is -5% points... Jesus, the money is virtual, it does not need to physically be transported in and out ? But pp will penalised you for -5% points.... and this is not recoverable.. Imagine how many accounts they freeze for simple verifications in a day ?

Every time an account gets limited, pp makes 5% of your withdrawals over the last 3 days for international accounts.. Good money isn't it ? Who is the real scammer ?

So should it be, sorry "I dun deal with you cos you do not have a scampal account ?"

Time to move on guys, soon, no dealers on board will be able to accept pp.....

Thanks

Joshua

[watcher71]

Today it's pay pal, but eventually it will go beyond pp and into the other money-middle-men. This is an illegal industry, so simple logic would dictate that the money-middle-men will NEVER give the benefit of the doubt to anyone involved in these transactions (especially the dealers!) and logic will mandate that there will ALWAYS be buyers looking to scam dealers because the scammer buyers know that pay pal or whoever will likely side with the person claiming that he received something that was counterfeit or broken...

It is a sad day for this dishonest little hobby of ours ...

[pizzanooo]

Just had them close my account until I reverify my info. It happened just 2 minutes after I paid for a strap through the bay on a buy it now. Got a confirm mail for the purchase, then bang, 2 minutes later we have limited your account until we reverify your info. Along with the banking info, they want me to fax a copy of some letter I`m suppose to download from them, wait for a letter from them with a number on it to type in the site, and provide info for the last 7 items I have sold on the bay. They want the name, price, date, and who I bought the items from. Most of the stuff I sold was just laying around the house, old camcorder ect. and a couple of vintage watches. Everyone of these sales were done deals with positve feedback from the buyers and from me. Luckily I only had a couple hundred bucks in there, a few days earlier and different story. I have mailed them several times to tell them I aint got no contact info for the items sold, no response. Right now I just say F$#K off. I`ll use Wu or Money orders to buy for awhile. Just sent El a MO and no big deal. I`m done with these folks.

[trustywatchguy]

I totally agreed with Joshua. Although pp is very popular, but very soon dealers in here will move away from pp. You can ask around and I am pretty sure every dealer in here with pp has met with severe problems along the way.

Why should we put up with pp, the biggest scammer of all?

Meanwhile, I am considering other options but think for now, still sticking on SCAMPAL....

[that_watch_guy]

As someone who buys and sells a lot of watches, I'd really like to be able to bypass pp. I just don't know what it would take to convince the majority of buyers that I am a trustworthy person, if we have never done business before. People are just too darn aprehensive to wire money. This is understandable, as once you wire it, it's gone for good, but if people used common sense to verify the dealer's reputation, they would worry less. A guy who bought a PAM196 off of me had been scammed when he tried to purchase the same watch from someone else earlier. When I looked at the link to the ad he sent me, it just screamed "FRAUD!" to me, but I guess inexperienced buyers still fall for those types of things.