Take that Maradona!

[By-Tor]

Maradona was a footballing genius. But there will only ever be one Pele. It's like how I appreciate and love Elvis, but Frank Sinatra topped him by miles.

Debatable. Pele always had a great team behind him. The world champion team Argentina 1986 was above average at best.... and it was completely built around Maradona, who almost single handedly (no pun) won the world cup. Oscar Ruggeri was the only world class player in that lineup... Jorge Valdano was already past his prime. Maradona also captained the worst Argentina national team ever, the 1990 team, to the world cup finals. I guess I don't even have to mention what Maradona did to a nickel and dime laughingstock team of Serie A, Napoli. You should check out the YouTube footage from his Napoli era, he was insanely good.

I'm not saying Maradona was better than Pele, but if you forget his chaotic personal life and cheating habits... and look at his achievements and talent objectively, I think he was just as good and dominant football player. And besides, they played in the different era of football. When Pele was in his prime football was much more offensive game, and Pele's role in the Brazilian (absolutely superb) national team was different. He was a pure forward, while Maradona orchestrated the game from the "attacking midfielder" position (a'la Zidane). It wasn't all about scoring goals. If his opponents gave him 5-10 seconds of "loose rope" he usually delivered. This is a good example from Italy 1990 World Cup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52lvd9xLhaw

[Guest TTK]

And the ultra-mondaine Prince Felix Yussopov would faint clean away

Amazing to think that he died the year I was getting engaged......what different times......ultra-mondaine.....demi-mondaine.....quelle est la diff

[Victoria]

Debatable.

Not in my opinion. And therein lies the rub. It's not a question that will be settled ever amongst people who favour one over the other.

To me, Pele is a class apart. His skills were non-pareil, he could do it all, and not just with his left leg. What he did throughout his career speaks volumes, with or without his teammates. Although if you want to make the argument that Argentina were worse teams than Brazil teams, please do. I'll be the first one to smile in agreement.

There is only one Pele. Note, I don't try to influence you by showing you links. Either you know, or you don't. And in a rep watch forum, it doesn't matter which, really.

[By-Tor]

There is only one Pele. Note, I don't try to influence you by showing you links. Either you know, or you don't. And in a rep watch forum, it doesn't matter which, really.

What on earth makes you think I was trying to "influence" you with the link? It's quite apparent that you have made up your mind long time ago. I posted it for fun... because it was a nice link. I thought it was something that a real football fan would appreciate.

Maybe Pele was the better player of these two, maybe he wasn't. Frankly, I think it would have been potentially good, entertaining and interesting debate. You think the matter isn't debatable, and that I'm "ignorant" and "I just don't know" because I disagree with you...about some silly football player? Sounds quite immature to me.

Personally, I think it's just a matter of approach... I don't think everything in this world is about competition, cheap sarcasm or lack of good manners. And pray tell what difference would it make if this discussion took place in a gen watch forum? Is this a veiled reference to the "low class" forum membership in general?

I think you're trolling for flames M'Lady.

[Victoria]

What on earth makes you think I was trying to "influence" you with the link? It's quite apparent that you have made up your mind long time ago. I posted it for fun... because it was a nice link. I thought it was something that a real football fan would appreciate.

Maybe Pele was the better player of these two, maybe he wasn't. Frankly, I think it would have been potentially good, entertaining and interesting debate. You think the matter isn't debatable, and that I'm "ignorant" and "I just don't know" because I disagree with you...about some silly football player? Sounds quite immature to me.

Let me stop right here, By-Tor.

I notice that you and I don't have good chemistry, for whatever reason, and this is influencing this debate. My awkward syntax made it seem to you that I called you ignorant by my words "just don't know".

By that I meant "you either know your taste/opinion about Pele, or you don't". I was in no way, shape or form calling you ignorant, but if that is what you got out of it, I apologise.

In this forum, I love to chat about all kinds of things, but when I notice that an OT statement within a thread is becoming a little protracted, I clam up. Please don't take this as a sign of lack of debate skills, or even worse, a sign of standoffishness.

I'll be the first one to admit I'm arrogant, but I'm also unfailingly polite, and once you get to know me, warm-hearted.

But if I rub you the wrong way, however, I pray you please leave me alone by not engaging me in OT conversation. I can't make myself any clearer than that, By-Tor. It's unusual for an Englishwoman to be so frank, but I've learnt a thing or two about that in the US -- and I'm sure a Norwegian can appreciate the honest attitude, yes?

Catch you around the boards tomorrow, my time.

[Pugwash]

but if you forget his chaotic personal life and cheating habits... and look at his achievements and talent objectively,

This is something I don't get. Why do so many people that simply shouldn't need to cheat do so? Look at Maradona, Ronaldo or even Schumacher in F1. They're supposed to be the best, right? Well, if you cheat, it gets impossible to be purely objective.

[By-Tor]

This is something I don't get. Why do so many people that simply shouldn't need to cheat do so? Look at Maradona, Ronaldo or even Schumacher in F1. They're supposed to be the best, right? Well, if you cheat, it gets impossible to be purely objective.

I think Maradona's handball cheat has grown out of proportion, actually. I understand that the Brits still can't forgive him... but those two goals were just part of the soap opera that this guy has always been. And people wanted to see bigger meaning in his words... that Falkland war stuff and all... the media always endorsed it. People want legends, they want games that "rewrite the history". 1986 Mexico will always be remembered for that incident... and the Brits will always get sympathy/malicious pleasure for it.

The fact that made him a "cheat" was the referee who allowed the goal. Honestly, how many professional football players have cheated and dived in the penalty area? How is that different? Sometimes the ref calls it out, sometimes not. They also celebrate these cheap goals just as much as the "good" ones.

What Scumsucker did was dangerous and it was totally against the ethics of the sport. Football players have always cheated as much as they can... it's part of the game. Especially among the Latin players.

@vbarrett: Consider it dropped. I probably misunderstood you. Just don't call me Norwegian, ok.

[Victoria]

@vbarrett: Consider it dropped. I probably misunderstood you. Just don't call me Norwegian, ok.

ACK! What is wrong with me? Apologies! I suppose I saw "By-Tor" and made some Nordic connexion to the God of Thunder. Boo on me.

[Pugwash]

ACK! What is wrong with me? Apologies! I suppose I saw "By-Tor" and made some Nordic connexion to the God of Thunder. Boo on me.

Ah, he's named after a Rush song.

ps. He is, however, rumoured to be some form of muscle-bound Wiking Varrior.