gran Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 The sun is up and its not cloudy So! If you live in Alaska or Cape Town what tells time better (most accurately) your wrist watch or a sundial? "I am a sundial, and I make a botch Of what is done far better by a watch" Let us hear your opinion/knowledge on this topic Regards Gunnar Gran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 My avatar is still my favorite sundial. Perhaps one of our dealers could rep this beauty: "Pocket Sundial" Belgium, early 19th Century 10cm closed Brass, silver chasing As Europe became increasingly caught up in commerce and trade there was a growing need for accurate timepieces. Since miniature mechanical clockworks were frustratingly unreliable, watchmakers fell back on an older method of timekeeping, and suddenly pocket and wrist sundials were all the rage. The "Railroad" model shown here had no moving parts other than the flip-up gnomon and was consequently quite durable as well as extremely accurate. The Swiss company Time Rex marketed them under the slogan: "Takes a stunning and keeps on sunning." Later improvements allowed the use of these clever devices even at night, with a streetlight, gas lamp or even a patent cigar lighter as a source of illumination. Models were available for both gentlemen and ladies, although the gnomons on the latter were so small that the sundials were regarded more as jewelry items than timepieces, especially when liberally studded with precious stones. Time Rex?????? "Takes a stunning and keeps on sunning." !!!!!!!!! Actually this is from a parody Web site: Gladys Dwindlebimmers Ralston Gallery of the Unidentifiable Some great treasures, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Sundials in fact can tell time more accurately than your watch Now how can this be? Regards Gunnar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Sundials in fact can tell time more accurately than your watch Now how can this be? That's a loaded question. Firstly, a sundial at 10pm is useless. Secondly, just because once a year it's dead-on-balls-accurate doesn't mean it tells time more accurately than your watch all the time, it merely means it's self-correcting. What you meant to say was "A Sundial can tell time more accurately than your watch in a few very specific instances under specific circumstances, weather permitting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Well it's fully automatic, doesn't need winding or sending to The Zigmeister or RBJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 That's a loaded question. Firstly, a sundial at 10pm is useless. Secondly, just because once a year it's dead-on-balls-accurate doesn't mean it tells time more accurately than your watch all the time, it merely means it's self-correcting. What you meant to say was "A Sundial can tell time more accurately than your watch in a few very specific instances under specific circumstances, weather permitting." It seems you know very little about the space fabric of time Pugwash Our watches do not tell us the true time at our location on the earth. The revolution of our planet around our sun and our planets revolution around its axis as a measure of time is what is supposed to be measured. Fact: The day length is not exactly 24 hours at my current location and probably not on yours either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 It seems you know very little about the space fabric of time Pugwash You'd be surprised. I am well aware of the Equation of time and the definition of a day that you're trying to sneak by me. A mean solar day is exactly 24 hours long. An actual day can be between 22 seconds shorter and 29 seconds longer. A Sundial can vary between 16 min 33 sec fast and 14 min 6 sec slow. It gets it right once or twice a year. Apparent solar time is not mean solar time. Watches show mean solar time, sundials show apparent solar time. I still fail to see your point. Sixteen and a half minutes out is a lot in anybody's book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HeWhoIsLikeGod Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 One point Pugwash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 @Pugwash "A mean solar day is exactly 24 hours long" is a constructed measure of time. The length of a real day differ and thus what you see on a sundial differ. You seem to beleive that an artificial construction ("mean day") is more real than the real day cycle out there. Wake up. the watch time is just an approximation and a convention. There is a need to look at this for many angels Pugwash, you should take in new knowledge with pleasure rather than to resist true insight. True time is what is actually happening out there in the real world not what is shown by your watch (admitedly the difference is only seconds but its ads up...) Regards Gunnar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 That's why there's an extra day in february every 4 years (leap year) to bring the approximation back in line. One day is one revolution of the earth, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 The other problem with sundials is that the lume is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 One day is one revolution of the earth, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Time to go watch the FA Cup final... Liverpool v West Ham. Hopefully Liverpool win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 One day is one revolution of the earth, Watches keep track of hours, minutes and seconds. They do this much more accurately than a sundial. That's the point here. For the date, we also use mean solar time and not actual solar time as the date is a construct based on passing hours, not the position of the sun. In other words, the time of day has very little to do with the actual position of the sun in the sky, and Sundials measure the position of the sun in the sky. QED: Watches tell the time more accurately than sundials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 "A mean solar day is exactly 24 hours long" is a constructed measure of time. The length of a real day differ and thus what you see on a sundial differ. You seem to beleive that an artificial construction ("mean day") is more real than the real day cycle out there. Wake up. the watch time is just an approximation and a convention. You're completely missing the point. Our entire calendar is based on mean solar day. Your bus timetable is based on mean solar day. Timezones are based on mean solar day. Tracking the passage of time is based on mean solar days and watches track the passage of time. You can flowery-nicey it up any way you like, but you're contradicting not only common sense but your country's official measurement of time. Will the trains take any less time to get from A to B because the day is shorter? You're trying to use the length of the day as an all-winning argument. Stop it, it doesn't work like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 That's why there's an extra day in february every 4 years (leap year) to bring the approximation back in line. The extra day is nothing to do with this. The extra day is because a year is slightly longer than 365 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 The statement is correct, as a year is approximated to 365 days a year, and an extra day every 4 years has to be added to correct it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I am starting to think you do not understand what I have meant by time in this thread You are desperate to be right and I am desperte to get you to think in favoir of sundials Why! because the day(time) is in fact a celestial phenomenon. The seconds, minutes, day, year week monmths and years that we are measuring them in are indeed a constructions , a system and approxiamte measure but not real time. The sundial can measuer the real time provided it is placed correctly and there is sunlight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 The statement is correct, as a year is approximated to 365 days a year, and an extra day every 4 years has to be added to correct it. Even that is not completely correct...real time it differs slightly from 365 and 1/4 of our "watch" days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I am starting to think you do not understand what I have meant by time in this thread I'm starting to think you don't know what time is. Still, you have already assumed I am arguing to an agenda, so nothing I can say will convince you that I actually know what I'm talking about and that I see your point as a childish point-scoring exercise, so I'm going to graciously bow out of this discussion as it's obviously going over your head. Here's my closing argument: The speed the earth spins at does not affect in any way the pasage of seconds, minutes and hours. An hour is 3600 seconds and a second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state (at rest at a temperature of 0 K) of the caesium-133 atom. No amount of planetary rotation can change this and this is what my watches try to approximately measure. Your effectively saying your cup measures water better than my sandbag. Of course it does, but we're measuring sand. Carry on, I'm done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagae Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Here's one I got a few years ago that first got me interested in sundials: http://www.digitalsundial.com/ Very easy to read the time, but it's only accurate to within about +/- five minutes Another site I heard about recently: http://www.heliosuhren.de/E_frames.html Seems rather pricey, but they make some beautiful sundials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Time to go watch the FA Cup final... Liverpool v West Ham. Hopefully Liverpool win Liverpool won a thrilling cup final... eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Yes but the hammers gave them a very diificult match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Yes but the hammers gave them a very diificult match Yes.... but hammers got lucky - 1 own goal and 2 keeper mistakes. Liverpool also had a perfectly good Peter Crouch goal incorrectly ruled out for offside. Liverpool were playing their 62nd or 63rd game of the season, a lot more than almost any other team and it showed. They looked tired, and when Alonso went off, I thought it was over, that's when the hammers took more control. Having said that it was Alonso who gave the ball away for their first goal. He obviously wasnt 100% fit Harry Kewell will be worried to make the World Cup now. Anyway, the best FA Cup final that I've ever seen Now for the European Cup final on Wednesday... can it match the FA Cup final or even last year's European Cup final (hmmm... Liverpool cup finals always seem to be exciting... Alaves, Arsenal, AC Milan and now against West Ham). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.