No offence intended

[FxrAndy]

but most of this has some truth!

[Pugwash]

[sssurfer]

but most of this has some truth!

Some truth?!?

This frame from the video should be pinned on every boys' textbook!

[FxrAndy]

I try to be non-contraversial, i dont have time to prove points

[Victoria]

This is the Looney Bin, so let's be really crazy. Post one of the Prophet Mohammed! (Requisite PBUH, though I'm not Muslim)

Don't worry, I have a gun, and I'll cover you, baby!

[Pugwash]

Post one of the Prophet Mohammed!

I don't have one of Mohammed.

Besides, we've seen where that kind of [censored] gets you.

[Victoria]

I don't have one of Mohammed.

Besides, we've seen where that kind of [censored] gets you.

I know. Christians don't react quite the same way, so we're easy targets, Puggy. When Madonna makes fun of Mohammed instead of nailing herself to a cross and flinging herself around the arena (as in her last show in Miami's AAA centre), I'll call her a rebel.

Until then, she's a menopausal wannabe poseur-rebel, without guts or originality. A bit like Dave Allen, actually!

EDIT: Oh drat, poor Dave Allen died recently in Oz, didn't he? Never mind. RIP Dave!! How I remember those monologues repeats in that chair with fondness.

[Pugwash]

I know. Christians don't react quite the same way, so we're easy targets, Puggy.

It's not that. Taking the [censored] out of Mohammed is simply not my fight. Taking the [censored] out of Christians, however, that's my culture. I was raised in a Christian country so that's the one I'll rebel against.

Oh and much like you have every right to walk through Harlem wearing a Klansman outfit, it still doesn't make it worth doing to prove a point. Same reason not to post Mohammed jokes on the internet. Someone, somewhere is going to be stupid about it and that's simply neither my fault nor my problem.

[hambone]

Yes, a photo of Mohammed blowing a goat might cause a wee bit of consternation in some circles.

[Victoria]

It's not that. Taking the [censored] out of Mohammed is simply not my fight. Taking the [censored] out of Christians, however, that's my culture. I was raised in a Christian country so that's the one I'll rebel against.

Right, that's what people who like to take the mickey out of Christianity usually say.

And I think they're right, to an extent. You deal best with what you know. Helps that you know there's nil chance of violent retaliation, though.

Oh and much like you have every right to walk through Harlem wearing a Klansman outfit, it still doesn't make it worth doing to prove a point. Same reason not to post Mohammed jokes on the internet. Someone, somewhere is going to be stupid about it and that's simply neither my fault nor my problem.

Good show. Let's hope you show the same equanimity when some crazyman takes insulting Christianity on the internet in a bad way, and kills the person.

EDIT: In honour of Fxr Andy's original light-hearted Looney Bin idea, I give you JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF!

Well, a Puerto Rican ex-convict who said he was first the Apostle Paul, then Jesus Christ the Lord God Our Man (or whatever title that lady said), then the Anti-Christ. He's covering all the bases!

I just can't believe he has a Church in Hialeah. Oh wait, yes I can.

[Pugwash]

Right, that's what people who like to take the mickey out of Christianity usually say.

You've been in the US too long. You're thinking like the World Police again.

You deal with your problems on your doorstep. You clean up your own back yard before telling your neighbours how to do theirs. To me, this means I can rip the proverbial out of Christians because that's my duty. That's my fight.

Mohammed? I know sweet [censored] adams about the Muslim culture and wouldn't know where to start.

Good show. Let's hope you show the same equanimity when some crazyman takes insulting Christianity on the internet in a bad way, and kills the person.

That makes no sense. I fail to see how you got there from my post.

[Victoria]

Mohammed? I know sweet [censored] adams about the Muslim culture and wouldn't know where to start.

Most people around the world who are not Muslims, don't either. And many people don't want to, not to diss Islam, but simply because they are not religious or interested in religion.

That makes no sense. I fail to see how you got there from my post.

Yes, my syntax was awkward, I'm sorry. Put it this way:

You seem very careful not to insult Islam (indeed, so am I. Not because I fear, but because I respect), but you common sensically note that attacking certain people, especially without provocation, sometimes causes deep offence, and don't be alarmed if you get violence out of your insults.

So let's say a person takes someone posting insultingly about Christianity in a bad way (bad way=violently).

Somehow I doubt people will react with quite the same passive, common sensical tone if they do.

[Pugwash]

So let's say a person takes someone posting insultingly about Christianity in a bad way (bad way=violently).

Somehow I doubt people will react with quite the same passive, common sensical tone if they do.

I feel provoked by Christians, though. And I know how to insult the religion without insulting the individual people. I can't say the same about Islam.

If Christians started killing people because they felt slighted, then ... oh, wait. Isn't that what this war in Iraq is about? God told Shrub to invade, no?

[Victoria]

I feel provoked by Christians, though. And I know how to insult the religion without insulting the individual people. I can't say the same about Islam.

I see.

If Christians started killing people because they felt slighted, then ... oh, wait. Isn't that what this war in Iraq is about? God told Shrub to invade, no?

No, Puggy. He ordered the invasion of Iraq because that area has been the Holy Grail of strategic military power since the year 4000 BC.

At least, that was the excuse we British used when we invaded Iraq earlier last century too.

[guanaco]

All religions have their wackos, Christians have the KKK & Nazis (if I'm not mistaken) and Muslims have, well... most of themselves, and that video made me nod and laugh like crazy , I'm a Christian, I believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit & the Virgin Mary, etc. However I don't go around thinking I have privileges because I am Christian, I don't harass people they're making god mad, I've had pre-marital sex (and wtf not?!), I lie (white lies, big lies when I'm late at work ), I love porn, I'm pro choice regarding abortions (Well it's THEIR body, sorry if it goes against anyones principles), I LOVE guns, I am for the death penalty (Smoke the bastards!).

I absolutely HATE when people try to convert others into something they're not (Vegetarians and Jehovah Witness specially who cannot keep their mouth shut), I love booze, etc. In other words I go with the flow while letting others leave their life peacefully, it's their life not mine, they're not doing anything wrong, nor are they offending me, so WTF should I bother them?

So do I feel offended by this video? HELL NO! It's true! A ring for pledging virginity? [censored]ing ridiculous! Jews feeling as if they've suffered enough? Er... no offense but wouldn't those be your long dead relatives? You've been living the sweet life, and you're not in the middle of a war on the U.S. so what gives? Go to Israel and THEN you can [censored] about being in the middle of a war (BTW GO ISRAEL! - We support Israel here in El Salvador).

ANYWAYS, great stand up, loved it!

As for others insulting other religion, hey, it's a free country in which you live in, so WTF not?!

Just try and not keep it personal guys

[Pugwash]

I'm a Christian, I believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit & the Virgin Mary, etc. [...] I've had pre-marital sex (and wtf not?!), I lie (white lies, big lies when I'm late at work ), I love porn,

I simply don't think you've thought this out. You're like the paedophile priests that say they believe in god but blatantly disobey His orders knowing a fiery pit of hell awaits if what they believe is true. You know you're not supposed to pick and choose the bits to believe, right?

What you're actually saying is that you believe in God and you're ignoring him because you simply believe you know better. Great.

Just try and not keep it personal guys

Oops.

[Victoria]

I simply don't think you've thought this out. You're like the paedophile priests

This is horrible overreach, Pugwash. Seriously. One feels instinctively one can speak to you, because you'll give people a square deal in exchanging ideas.

What you're actually saying is that you believe in God and you're ignoring him because you simply believe you know better. Great.

No, he's a cultural Catholic*, like I am. It's been referred to as Cafeteria Catholicism, because people like us pick and choose what we like to follow based on personal convenience.

(*Well, Christian to be exact)

There are all types of variants, such as pracitising Liberal Judaism, or being Muslim in Turkey, where you do not follow the shar'ia.

People do this, and have done this since the beginning of time because following religious Commandments is hard. Real hard. Those of us who are honest with ourselves know we're hypocrites when we don't at least try.

That doesn't mean we're better or worse than anyone else. It just means we're human.

Since we're discussing this on a rep forum, where people buy and sell replica watches, which is intellectual property theft at best, outright scuzziness at worst, I don't think anyone of us can claim any kind of moral high ground.

That certainly is the case with me, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who agree. Guanaco was certainly honest enough to say as much.

[pabra]

I simply don't think you've thought this out. You're like the paedophile priests that say they believe in god but blatantly disobey His orders knowing a fiery pit of hell awaits if what they believe is true. You know you're not supposed to pick and choose the bits to believe, right?

What you're actually saying is that you believe in God and you're ignoring him because you simply believe you know better. Great.

Oops.

Why not bits and pieces? Do these bits refer to the bible?

What he's saying would've made Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, love him. Not in the sense that he's done away with god, which seems to be the argument, but that he revaluates values.

[Victoria]

What he's saying would've made Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, love him. Not in the sense that he's done away with god, which seems to be the argument, but that he revaluates values.

A salient point, Pabra.

However, if I understand Guanaco correctly, he is the type of person for whom his religion is part of him, but doesn't define who he is. That's me too.

I believe man is inherently searching for a higher truth. Some call it God, some call it science, some call it Hublot Big Bangs.

Call it whatever, but know that this search is primordial.

[Pugwash]

This is horrible overreach, Pugwash. Seriously. One feels instinctively one can speak to you, because you'll give people a square deal in exchanging ideas.

It's the same hypocrisy, even though I'm in no way suggesting guanaco is a paedophile, obviously.

If you like having an imaginary friend, sure, carry on. Just don't give it money and most certainly don't base any important decisions on whether or not it's real.

Because it isn't.

No, it isn't and you know it.

[Victoria]

It's the same hypocrisy, even though I'm in no way suggesting guanaco is a paedophile, obviously.

It smelt like Godwin's Law. Not good, but at least you clarified, so back to the chat.

If you like having an imaginary friend, sure, carry on. Just don't give it money and most certainly don't base any important decisions on whether or not it's real.

This is two separate ideas. Religion. God.

One (religion) is man-defined, no matter what Moses said, or what the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) claimed.

The other (God) is one of those unbelievable Eureka moments that sometimes happens to Man, that gives Man an extra edge over the other animals, and always will.

Because it isn't.

No, it isn't and you know it.

No. I don't. And I'm not willing to take your word for it, either.

[Pugwash]

Why not bits and pieces? Do these bits refer to the bible?

Simply because as soon as you accept the premise of Christianity, you either believe the lot or you don't. If you choose to disagree with the first council of Nicaea's hatchet job and prefer to follow an earlier version based on what's available, you're picking and choosing, but it's against God's will because Emperor Constantine I was acting as an instrument of God (even though he was a Sun worshipper, go figure) in striking out controversial passages.

The Nicene Creed was put forward by Constantine I to unify the Christians under one bible and did so as the first great picker and chooser.

The Bible isn't a holy book, it's a heretic emperor's pet project.

I mean the whole point of the first council of Nicaea was to vote on whether or not Jesus was his own dad. A vote. Just think about it.

[Pugwash]

No. I don't. And I'm not willing to take your word for it, either.

If there were a God, he died in 1914.

God is a necessary part of civilisation's evolution. We needed to go through being united under one supreme being before we could get over killing each other for sport and food. Once we'd done that, we no longer needed an invisible "Don't or you'll burn for eternity" stick.

If there were one true religion, why hasn't it won?

And my big anti-religion question:

Why is your religion determined by the birthplace of your parents?

[Victoria]

I mean the whole point of the first council of Nicaea was to vote on whether or not Jesus was his own dad. A vote. Just think about it.

Gathered in that Council were some of the great sages of their time (and let's be honest, the 300s AD sucked ass).

Perhaps you would've preferred one dictatorial wave of the pontiff wand to define what is or what isn't Christianity? I would prefer what many people in Europe call "a dialogue".

It may be by force an elite dialogue, but at least it's better than some religious dictator handing you a glass of poisoned Kool-Aid telling you to drink up, or uh, else.

[Victoria]

If there were a God, he died in 1914.

God is a necessary part of civilisation's evolution. We needed to go through being united under one supreme being before we could get over killing each other for sport and food. Once we'd done that, we no longer needed an invisible "Don't or you'll burn for eternity" stick.

If there were one true religion, why hasn't it won?

Because it's not like war or history. It's not about winning. It's about belief.

And my big anti-religion question:

Why is your religion determined by the birthplace of your parents?

Same reason I'm not called Svetlana, Estafania, or Nzhinga.

Although, thankfully, I can choose to change my name (and religion) if it suits me to without getting my head chopped off.