andreww Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 In my Chrono Avenger Primer I pointed out that an easy way to tell the difference between a gen & rep dial was to look at the 8. If most of the top of the 8 is missing its Gen, and if most of the top of the 8 is there, its a rep. I did note that the catalogue picture of the black dial version did seem to have an 8 like our reps, but that I hadn't seen an actual example of it.... Until now. Below are two CAs currently on ebay. Note the the differences in the 8. Everything else seems to be pretty good, but Im not 100% convinced this is not a rep. Here is what the typical gen dial looks like... And here is the suspect watch. Also note the difference in the pearl. AR looks good however Serial is different from my 2nd gen, not sure if the 1st gen uses the same numbers. Crown looks good as well So, do you guys think this is a well modded rep, or an early version that makes our reps look better than we thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italiano17771 Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 looks like a gen to me. the thing i always first look at is the date font....date font looks good and so does everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I agree. So it seems that we have evidence that the 8 and 10 on our reps is actually correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Even if I were to accept that this is a true variation of a genuine chrono avenger (which I don't think I'm prepared to do), I'd be more concerned (whether true or not) that this is the second post questioning the authenticity of this seller's watches in as many days: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=48864&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Here is the back of my first gen if this helps. Personally - that watch looks pretty good. Probably gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 It's not the back that's in question (besides, a caseback would be easy to replace if you could source one), but rather, the dial. Specifically the amount of the "8" that is cut off at the top by the small seconds subdial. Typically (read:always) up 'til now, we have noticed the flaw in the rep is that there is much more "8" than there is on the gen. This watch brings that assumption into question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 One thing your image does show cskent69 is how different the crown gaurds look on the rep. The gen is muck more rounded than the square cut rep. Thanks for sharing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Ok. Just trying to help here. This is a picture of my dial - it is genuine. This watch also has a genuine ETA 7750 in it - hence the perfect date alignment in the genuine dial window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Here is the back of my first gen if this helps. Okay, I think I missed part of that. Are you saying this is your first genuine watch, or first generation CA replica? Ok. Just trying to help here. This is a picture of my dial - it is genuine. This watch also has a genuine ETA 7750 in it - hence the perfect date alignment in the genuine dial window. Again, what's genuine, the dial or the watch? Because if the watch is gen, why is the datefont wrong? And if you're saying you replaced the dial on your replica, how can you be sure the dial's genuine? A genuine ETA 7750 would cause the date to line up perfectly in a replica dial window as well. I'm not trying to rag on your watch, just want to clarify what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Not sure I buy the second variant of gen dial theory However it is feasible you could be looking at a very good franken, a gen movt in a old factory rep case - explains dial, pearl, decent AR etc. Alternatively, I'm still not 100% that isn't merely a good date overlay/new DW in there, alignment is a little iffy and the printing is not quite crisp/sharp/black enough IMO. CWe know Lello is working on this DW project, so very possible somebody else will have done this also? Another pic for comparison - same old gen dial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Sorry for the confusion giorgio. My watch is a first generation rep. The back is of the rep. The front is a genuine dial. Believe me, it is. The 7750 is a genuine Eta with a standard ETA font. As I said, i think that they must have made more than one version of this watch's dial. I compared my new dial with a genuine in the AD, particular noting the "8" and it was the exact same. Yes - i am one of the many who is also eagerly awaiting Lello's datewheel project. Also - not all replicas have "correct" window placement. For instance, some of our replica windows are cut in the wrong place and off a little here or there - and hence - that is why you can not get the date numbers to line up sometimes - even if using a genuine movement. I will see if I can dig up the old dial so that you can compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 The 7750 is a genuine Eta with a standard ETA font. It might have a Valj. 7750 in there but that ain't no standard ETA DW font - lacking in the serifs department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 @cskent69 - I could tell that yours was a 1st gen rep by the short second hand. also, note the shape of the CGs at the back of the watch. Yours is more "rounded", nothing like the gen. My 2nd generation rep seems to be more accurate in this area. Genuine back As for the 8 on the dial, the less cut off version is what appears in the 2006 catalogue, so I have no doubt that there is indeed a second variation of the dial. My guess is that this variation is from the first editions of this watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 It might have a Valj. 7750 in there but that ain't no standard ETA DW font - lacking in the serifs department Very good Doc! You are correct, it is an older Eta/Valjoux - not the new 25J. Good eyes - it is the datewheel which came with the movement though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 One thing your image does show cskent69 is how different the crown gaurds look on the rep. The gen is muck more rounded than the square cut rep. Thanks for sharing that. Pardon?@cskent69 - I could tell that yours was a 1st gen rep by the short second hand. also, note the shape of the CGs at the back of the watch. Yours is more "rounded", nothing like the gen.Oh, I see! The front is a genuine dial. Believe me, it is.May I ask how you can be so sure that's a genuine dial? Did you order it from Breitling? I have no doubt that there is indeed a second variation of the dial. My guess is that this variation is from the first editions of this watch.I think to believe that at the conclusion of a six year production run, Breitling decided to retool their dies so that the Chrono Avenger would more closely resemble the replica would be wishful thinking. But if that is true, then the 8/10 is not the only thing they changed: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I think to believe that at the conclusion of a six year production run, Breitling decided to retool their dies so that the Chrono Avenger would more closely resemble the replica would be wishful thinking. But if that is true, then the 8/10 is not the only thing they changed: My guess would be that the initial run of chrono avengers in black were the ones that resemble our rep dials. My reasons for thinking this? The watch in my initial post has the old style bracelet (again, like our reps), and the fact that the original Breitling photo shows this same dial. I have yet to see this 8 on any of the other color variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 It might have a Valj. 7750 in there but that ain't no standard ETA DW font - lacking in the serifs department Apologies, talking pish here (one of those days) had my own 7750 DWs out last night - indeed unlike the majority of ETA DWs the double digit numeral '1's are without serifs. Strange but true! Hopefully will have an old factory TiCA on its way to me soon, so looking forward to Lello's DW project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 @giorgos: I love your comparison. Gotta agree that cskent69's dial looks a little bit different. Here is mine. Possibly he has the new version (his looks just like the watch that andreww posted)? I ain't sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted September 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Hey Takashi, its good to see you here my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 @andreww: it's nice to participate in good discussion too ^^ Anyway, it may be true that there may be 2 versions of genuine dial (your picture and cskent look the same). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag1119 Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Which reputable dealers are offering the most accurate rep in the CA (Ti)? Now that we've settled the '8', date wheel and font questions by hybridization, do we have an accurate rep we can acquire, or do we all have to mod to add correct movements, fonts, etc.,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 I have a question?? is there a difference in the 4 in the 45 @ the 9 on the bezel .. I would love to get the TI rep but that one has a closed 4 as does the super avenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 (edited) The genuine article has an open 4 on the bezel. The earlier version of this replica has been discontinued. Another reference to genuine dial: Edited October 2, 2007 by takashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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