Well it happened..

[Bravoz]

Tested the Chrono and sync it up with another Tag Chrono (Gen).. started the same time and went to bed..

Woke up, checked the Tag which is still going, 8:34AM, and the BCE Chrono and Time stopped at 7:20AM..

No it didn't ran out of power as I was wearing it.

Reset the Chrono and time started again..

What should I do? Just got the watch 2 weeks ago. Maybe I should just avoid using the function.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Bravoz

[FxrAndy]

Are you sure it was fully wound, have you tested it again, does it always stop at the same time or after the same amount of time, try winding it 30 times and leave it on the night stand and see how long it runs.

[Bravoz]

It has happened again today. Also this time the 12' subdial stops moving after 25 marker.

Maybe I should stick to the ETAs this time.

No more Asian 7750 for me.

Such a shame I wanted the Aquaracer after this.

Any fix? What do you guys think?

[RWG Technical]

Maybe I should stick to the ETAs this time.

No more Asian 7750 for me.

Any un-serviced movement could be problematic, and the Asian 7750 as delivered is unserviced. It is probably completely dry throughout the motion works, has no oil in the balance cap jewels, is not adjusted correctly, and most likely is over oiled around the mainspring area. I see this all the time.

The Asian 7750 once serviced, (cleaned, oiled, adjusted) runs just as well as the Swiss does.

Don't think for a minute that just because you have an ETA Swiss 7750, your problems are solved. A perfect example occured yesterday, a Swiss ETA 7750 25 jewel shows up at my bench because it's not working right. I serviced it, and now it runs fine.

The problem your having is not due to the origin of the movement, but due to lack of correct maintenance.

The Asian 7750's are fine movements once given the same care and attention that a Swiss model has leaving the factory.

RG

[frankt]

Any un-serviced movement could be problematic, and the Asian 7750 as delivered is unserviced. It is probably completely dry throughout the motion works, has no oil in the balance cap jewels, is not adjusted correctly, and most likely is over oiled around the mainspring area. I see this all the time.

The Asian 7750 once serviced, (cleaned, oiled, adjusted) runs just as well as the Swiss does.

Don't think for a minute that just because you have an ETA Swiss 7750, your problems are solved. A perfect example occured yesterday, a Swiss ETA 7750 25 jewel shows up at my bench because it's not working right. I serviced it, and now it runs fine.

The problem your having is not due to the origin of the movement, but due to lack of correct maintenance.

The Asian 7750's are fine movements once given the same care and attention that a Swiss model has leaving the factory.

RG

Based on that, why would anybody ever buy one...???

Why would you pay decent $$'s to but a watch that IMMEDIATELY needs relatively expensive servicing simply to perform in the manner it was designed and represented..???

These reps are expensive enough to begin with, and to need to invest additional funds to get them to work properly is asinine!!

I won't even buy a rep with a non chrono 7750 inside!! My Arktos has the "cheap" 21j Asian movement, and performs flawlessly, WITHOUT needing an immediate trip to the watchmaker....And if and when it dies, I'm pretty sure I can simply replace the entire movement for less than the cost of a lube servicing on a 7750 out of the box!!

[UB7]

This happens with my BCE all the time...If its not fully wound the chrono will stop...I should probbably get it oiled

[RWG Technical]

Based on that, why would anybody ever buy one...???

I don't know, keep in mind that many members have 7750's that work fine without any servicing.

Why would you pay decent $$'s to but a watch that IMMEDIATELY needs relatively expensive servicing simply to perform in the manner it was designed and represented..???

Ask the dealers who sell the watches, they are the ones producing them.

These reps are expensive enough to begin with, and to need to invest additional funds to get them to work properly is asinine!!

Yes it is, but it doesn't change the facts.

I won't even buy a rep with a non chrono 7750 inside!! My Arktos has the "cheap" 21j Asian movement, and performs flawlessly, WITHOUT needing an immediate trip to the watchmaker....And if and when it dies, I'm pretty sure I can simply replace the entire movement for less than the cost of a lube servicing on a 7750 out of the box!!

That's fine for you, many members want and buy watches with the 7750 powering it. Every movement needs to be serviced at some point, no matter the make. Even genuine ETA Swiss movements need to be serviced, just like the one I did yesterday.

Of course it's cheaper to replace a cheap 21J with a new one for less than servicing a 7750 would cost. Servicing a chrono is very time consuming and complex, it's like comparing an overhaul on a lawnmower engine, to a V12 Ferrari engine, both are engines but there is a huge difference in complexity.

It's obvious you don't like the A7750, that's fine, many others do and have good success with them. My 3 year old 188 with the old A7750 still works perfect.

RG

[Bravoz]

Hmm, I wonder how much my local sidestreet watchsmith would charge me for this service.

[frankt]

I don't know, keep in mind that many members have 7750's that work fine without any servicing.

Ask the dealers who sell the watches, they are the ones producing them.

Yes it is, but it doesn't change the facts.

That's fine for you, many members want and buy watches with the 7750 powering it. Every movement needs to be serviced at some point, no matter the make. Even genuine ETA Swiss movements need to be serviced, just like the one I did yesterday.

Of course it's cheaper to replace a cheap 21J with a new one for less than servicing a 7750 would cost. Servicing a chrono is very time consuming and complex, it's like comparing an overhaul on a lawnmower engine, to a V12 Ferrari engine, both are engines but there is a huge difference in complexity.

It's obvious you don't like the A7750, that's fine, many others do and have good success with them. My 3 year old 188 with the old A7750 still works perfect.

RG

With all due respect The Zigmeister....Do you recommend purchase of these movements, which you acknowledge to be faulty..???...I realize they aren't really a problem for you, but for the ordinary guy who just wants a trouble free watch, they would seem to be "Red Flag" items to me!!

[FxrAndy]

Frank if you bought a merc and ran it with no oil how long would it go before you had a problem, a properly maintained lada would last longer.

[RWG Technical]

With all due respect Ziggy....Do you recommend purchase of these movements, which you acknowledge to be faulty..???...I realize they aren't really a problem for you, but for the ordinary guy who just wants a trouble free watch, they would seem to be "Red Flag" items to me!!

I never said they were faulty, I said they were not serviced correctly. Faulty implies a design or unfixable problem, not serviced correctly means the basic design is sound, it just needs to be serviced that's all.

Normal human nature is to complain when you have a problem.

I would guess for every one complaint we read about the Asian 7750 (this one included) there are many more Asian 7750's that are working just fine, without any servicing or anything else. And there as many that keep on working year after year without any servicing whatsoever. Eventually all movements need to be serviced, the Asian ones sometimes need it sooner than others...that's all...

Any rep can be a "Red Flag", consider that the ETA's are all surplus, which doesn't guarantee anything in terms of servicing or age.

If you want a trouble free watch, then quartz is the way to go. Mechanical movements require care, there is no way around this.

I don't recommend purchasing anything, all I can offer is my feedback from my hands on experience with these Asian 7750's. This experience allows me to inform the community of what I see when I open them up.

I can assure you that if the Asian 7750 was as bad as some would like us to believe, I would not offer to service them, and guarantee my workmanship for 6 months. I have not had a Asian 7750 returned to me due to problems after I serviced it for a long long time, only 1 return in the past 3 years that I can think of.

I just serviced a Rolex 1570, which when it arrived was not running at all. Now it runs perfect. Should I tell everyone to stay away from genuine Rolex's because this one arrived not running?

RG

[davidbir]

I just received my ETA 7750 from Ajoesmith so I am looking fwd to getting the movement installed in my Navitimer. I have to agree with the starter of this thread, and as a former service manager for VW, Audi, Porsche: If it needs servicing right away the retailers of the watch should advise people of that or, better yet, the FACTORY should prepare the movements properly.

Edited November 14, 2007 by davidbir

[davidbir]

A full service on an 7750 movement by The Zigmeister costs $200 if I understand correctly. If you are starting out with a genuine Rolex, Breitling etc that makes sense. If, however, you are starting out with an asian repro you bought for around $200 the original purchase price starts to look suspect. Labor costs in China are very low-much lower than Japan for instance yet you can buy a Seiko automatic chrono for about $300.

RWG must have some clout with the dealers and through them, the manufacturers of the reps--how can we bring pressure to bear on them to service these watches before selling them?

[spookycord]

Some dealers offer the 'servicing' for an extra fee. Question is, how do you know if they actually did anything or just are charging you $150 and drop shipping it anyways?

I'd say there are arguements for paying a watchmaker for serving a rep and against it. If I have a watch that I am really fond of or have spent some time effort or money into modding, or otherwise unique, I might consider getting it serviced, if it's a 'keeper'. If it's just gonna sit the way it is out of the box or if I know it will be readily available (if not improved upon) from the manufacturers down the road, then maybe I'll just toss it when it dies and buy another. Or sell it off for parts.

To each his own. But thank god we have people like The Zigmeister. It's like condoms and guns. I'd rather have 'em and not need 'em, than need 'em and not have 'em

[RWG Technical]

But thank god we have people like Ziggy. It's like condoms and guns. I'd rather have 'em and not need 'em, than need 'em and not have 'em

Thanks I think? I believe it's the first time I have been compared to condoms and guns, in the same sentence. Brings back the good old days in the military...ahh... the hazing, how I miss it so...

RG

[RWG Technical]

A full service on an 7750 movement by Ziggy costs $200 if I understand correctly. If you are starting out with a genuine Rolex, Breitling etc that makes sense. If, however, you are starting out with an asian repro you bought for around $200 the original purchase price starts to look suspect.

That is true, but the problem is a comparison of the cost of the item vs what it takes to service it.

Servicing a chrono, any chrono, is very time consuming, commercial shops can start at $750 for a chrono.

So although the whole watch may have cost the same as the servicing cost, it still requires the same level of effort and skill to service an Asian 7750, as it does for me to service a Tudor 7750, which retails at $700 or more - just for the movement alone...your paying for the skill, it's not fair to compare it to the cost of the watch.

This is unfortunate, but how it is.

RG

[davidbir]

My concern is not with The Zigmeister, I want to make that very clear, it is with the manufacturers.

Do I think they will change their ways? As Mohamed Ali once said: "You have two chances, slim and none!"

[lanikai]

My BCE A7750 is very tempermental sometimes it will run 10 minutes fast every 24 hrs. and other times when I wear it it will run spot on.. ... it will someday take a trip to Canada, to Ziggy.. I think of it as having a mechanic work on tuning a triple twin carb. set up .. not as simple as 1-2-3 .. in part you are paying for knowledge and not just time spent.... this is the cost of mechanical movements vs. quartz... ,..

not all techs in the factories have the knowledge.. and remember this is not the Genuine factories. so we have basiclly a good movement that needs fine tuning... no matter (IMHO).. how much time some of these factory workers spend on it they may not have the knowledge to do it justice.

[Sweattdogg]

These are replica watches. Many gen manufacturers have problems with swiss ETA 7750. Everyone knows that the nature of a chronograph movement is more complicated then a standard movement. Swiss or Asian all movements will need serviced over a given period of time. Chronos probably even more so than a regular movement due to the complications. Sure the dealers could put gen swiss ETA 7750's in every watch, but how much would that cost? There would still be no guarantee that the functions will work flawlessly. The solution is to plan on servicing the watch before you buy it. If it works great out of the gate then you are lucky, if not then just pay up to have a watch that will last for years before it's next service.

[davidbir]

If you look at the posting times for my last post and The Zigmeisters you will see they are the same!

Again, I am not commenting on what The Zigmeister charges-that is irrelevant to my point, I am commenting on the need to perform the service!

No one has addressed my suggestion that RWG ,as a group, lobby the manufacturers to have them prepare the watch movements properly before selling them--at the prices we are paying there is more than enough to cover the cost if done in China.

[RWG Technical]

If you look at the posting times for my last post and Ziggys you will see they are the same! Again, I am not commenting on what Ziggy charges-that is irrelevant to my point, I am commenting on the need to perform the service!No one has addressed my suggestion that RWG ,as a group, lobby the manufacturers to have them prepare the watch movements properly before selling them--at the prices we are paying there is more than enough to cover the cost if done in China.

I never took your comments as anything but constructive and certainly not derogative towards me and my services.I agree that it's not acceptable that the movements are delivered this way, a surplus ETA I can see how it's hard to control the quality, but a brand new Asian 7750, that is fresh and assembled, there is no reason it can't be serviced correctly.I think the reason it's not done, is that it takes a lot of time and skill to lubricate the movement correctly and make all the necessairy adjustments. These movements probably sell for $25, I have a price list from a Chinese manufacturer of Asian movements, which includes all the types we have and see in our watches, a 6497 high end model is less than $20...Chrono's are like sports car engines, fussy and need tweaking to get them to work right. Once adjusted and lubricated correctly, they run like a champ...This problem has existed for as long as I have been here, and I don't see it changing anytime soon...RG

[eddhead]

Not to over-simplify this, but based on the observations of our resident movement guru (which are certainly good enough for me) , it seems that he relevent considerations are:

-All 7750's (Asian and ETA) will require service every 3 years or so.

- Once an A7750 is serviced it runs as well as a serviced ETA 7750

- A7750's require service out of the box while ETA's probably do not. This means over the life the movement, A7750s require one additional service relative to ETA 7750's

- The Servicing any 7750 is about a $200 job

Therefore the breakeven point is $200. If you buy into the notion that a serviced A7750 functions as well as an ETA version, you would logically pay up to $200 extra for the ETA version. Anything more than and it is not worth it. Anything less and it is.

I am sure this is stating the obvious but I wanted to address the notion that it shouldn't matter because all 7750's will eventually need service. While true, remember the Asian versions need one additional servicing over the life of the watch.

[davidbir]

After giving some more thought to this I realise I am dreaming in technicolor! We are dealing with people in China who are outside the law even of their own country - did you see the feature on tv recently about 'replica' drugs being made in China and passed off as real? And I want them to service the watches!! ROTFFl!

[RWG Technical]

Very well put eddhead.

Added to the Asian vs ETA comparison is the cost to purchase the ETA, and have it installed in place of the Asian movement. Which combined, is less than the cost for the one extra servicing of the Asian over the life of the watch.

RG

[davidbir]

After reading the "Asia SFSO dead after one month" thread (These two threads could be blended) I decided to take the back off my Navitimer. With great hesitation I add; I recently overhauled an Aston Martin engine and am currently working on a Bentley but the 'bits' are rather larger than watch parts....

When I removed the back a very small part dropped out--I have no idea what it is. It is perhaps 3mm long, 1mm wide with a hole in one end and a slight curve to it. I gently replaced the back with the loose part still inside. I have to say the level of workmanship of the movement looks extraordinary given that it is made in a back street in China.