Watchmeister Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Time to buy new digital SLR. D-70 versus equivalent Canon ???. Which one will be easier for me to get good watch pictures from? I am even getting inspired to try and build a light box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exper Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 All my photos are taken with a D70s, personally I am a Nikon buff but the 350 should be alright too. I guess it comes down to which one you really prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Nikon vs Canon = Minolta.......kicks ass on all at it's level......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 D70. No contest. Pick up a 28mm, 50mm, 85mm, 105mm, 135mm, and an 80mm-200mm zoom, and you'll be set to shoot more than just watches. On eBay all of the above lenses are affordable; just make sure you don't buy anything over 2.8. Of course, if you really do just want to shoot watches, the 50mm and the 85mm are fine. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Reminds me of something said to me by the immortal Jeff Cooper.... "the results of a lowly .22 in the hands of a combat master can be quite gratifying, whereas those of a medium tank driven by a baboon never can be" I would build my light box first - take plenty of photos and learn just what your requirements are. Most will take good watch shots without too much difficulty if set right. Your choice may ultimately be governed by 'comfort' features like the ability to hotchange flash cards, multiple stored settings etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahchard Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 nikon.... i have a cannon though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Kruzer - it does not really matter which camera you use. All the digital SLR's are good - what count is the lens. The Nikon "D70s kit" comes with a much better lens (18-70mm) than the Cannon at this price, and then take a look at Sigma's range of lenses. If you want a good general all rounder they make a 28-300mm with macro facility that would do all (they do this for the Cannon as well) Personally I stick with Nikon as their flash systems are much more advanced but then I already have pro level Nikon kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Gents - Thanks for the suggestions. TTK- Which Minolta? You take fabulous pictures. Narikaa- Point taken. Lousy photographer will generate lousy pictures irrespective of camera. In my case, I have not previously owned a digital slr (Nikon point and shoot currently). I have never tried to develop photo skills so it may well be a waste of money. But my thinking is that as long as I am going to go to the trouble to learn all about the features I would just assume start with the system that people have had good experiences with. I have a number of nice reps and would like to be able to take pictures commensurate with my pride and investment. Finepics- Thanks for the insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Gents - Thanks for the suggestions. TTK- Which Minolta? You take fabulous pictures. Narikaa- Point taken. Lousy photographer will generate lousy pictures irrespective of camera. In my case, I have not previously owned a digital slr (Nikon point and shoot currently). I have never tried to develop photo skills so it may well be a waste of money. But my thinking is that as long as I am going to go to the trouble to learn all about the features I would just assume start with the system that people have had good experiences with. I have a number of nice reps and would like to be able to take pictures commensurate with my pride and investment. Finepics- Thanks for the insight. Kruzer - the Nikon D70s kit is something of a bargain as well especially in the US. It is a very good camera and would definitely be my choice of the two. It is much better made than the 350 cannon (which looks really plasticky and cheap) although you will not see any difference in picture quality. More pixels do not a better picture make - they only allow you to blow-up to a larger print size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) Time to buy new digital SLR. D-70 versus equivalent Canon ???. Which one will be easier for me to get good watch pictures from? I am even getting inspired to try and build a light box. The camera doesn't matter that much, to be honest. Buying a new camera won't instantly make you a better photographer. If you're buying a fancy SLR to help you become a better photographer, I'd recommend a cheaper Canon EOS350D with the change from the bigger camera (a D70 is about $300 more than a EOS350) spent on glass. The flexibility of having more choice in lenses will allow you to experiment more, and that's what makes you get better. However, if you're buying a camera for pose-value and cachet, and there's nothing wrong with that, then I'd say Nikon all the way, but if I were buying an SLR, I would wait for this one before deciding: Panasonic DMC-L1. I use the Panasonic DMC-FZ20 non-SLR as my main workhorse, but use a beaten-up old FinePix A204 for my tutorials. (edits for links and stuff...) Edited March 19, 2006 by Pugwash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 The camera doesn't matter that much, to be honest. Buying a new camera won't instantly make you a better photographer. If you're buying a fancy SLR to help you become a better photographer, I'd recommend a cheaper Canon EOS350D with the change from the bigger camera (a D70 is about $300 more than a EOS350) spent on glass. The flexibility of having more choice in lenses will allow you to experiment more, and that's what makes you get better. However, if you're buying a camera for pose-value and cachet, and there's nothing wrong with that, then I'd say Nikon all the way, but if I were buying an SLR, I would wait for this one before deciding: Panasonic DMC-L1. I use the Panasonic DMC-FZ20 non-SLR as my main workhorse, but use a beaten-up old FinePix A204 for my tutorials. (edits for links and stuff...) I think that a camera that only takes Leica lenses is a bit of overkill for a beginner - this is a serious tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Wow, that panasonic looks like the Leica I used to own many years ago. I presume it is thousands of dollars though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Wow, that panasonic looks like the Leica I used to own many years ago. I presume it is thousands of dollars though. Don't think it's actually out yet. I used to have a Leica M2 (made in 1962) with a 35mm, 50mm and 105mm lenses that I was regtularly using until a few years ago. Beautiful camera and the lenses were unbelievably sharp. There is something very magical about them. My kit now is a Fuji S3 Pro, 10-20mm, 24-60 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 and 105 macro plus flash, tripod and a wealth of accessories!! Pro kit is like reps - toys for the boys so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Yeah, but, make no mistake, that is half the fun. The joke is my excuse for the purchase is taking the family on vacation. I don't get tagged by the wife for "dumping more money into reps". And she just figured out how much I have spent in the last 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Wow, that panasonic looks like the Leica I used to own many years ago. I presume it is thousands of dollars though. We're waiting on pricing, but it'll not be as horrendous as many believe. My Panasonic DMC-FZ20 has a Leica lens. The totally awesome lens is one of the reasons I bought it. Anyway, what pics do you want to take? Because we can already see there are several dealers each with their distinctive styles of taking watch shots. For instance, Neil (ttk) will sit well back with two lamps and a black background, meaning his focussing is always precise and uniform, even if he has to crush the blacks a little afterwards. He crops heavily and uses only optical zoom, not digital. Eddie Lee, though, will go in real close on f2.8 or possibly lower. He'll manually focus on a detail and let the depth of field give an amazing picture that draws you right into the detail, making you forget to notice that the piece of curved paper behind the watch is creased too tightly. Andrew, Trusty old Andrew, will use autofocus on close-ups, meaning he unfortunately gets amazingly clear reflections, at the cost of a great pic. Luckyyy, however, will get bitten on the ass by the magic want on photoshop so hard I can't tell all his techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I would say TTK. His pictures are amazing. My goals are fairly modest. First, simple crisp overall pictures with no reflection (I can't do that with my current camera). Then focus on details. After that I will get creative with background. What started me on this is that I know very little and my wrist check pictures always stink. Oh, and I do need to upgrade my camera for vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Luckyyy, however, will get bitten on the ass by the magic want on photoshop so hard I can't tell all his techniques. Wow, I can't believe how crappy my spelling gets when my GF calls me through for lunch. I lose the plot, spell badly and cut my post short. Still, the food was worth it. For those who couldn't parse my gibberish, I meant "Magic wand tool". Lucky takes fair photos but uses the magic wand to try to remove background blemishes, but sometimes this cuts into the watch, giving a weird effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I would say TTK. His pictures are amazing. My goals are fairly modest. First, simple crisp overall pictures with no reflection (I can't do that with my current camera). Then focus on details. After that I will get creative with background. What started me on this is that I know very little and my wrist check pictures always stink. Oh, and I do need to upgrade my camera for vacation. If you'll be travelling with the camera a lot, you need to consider weight. A camera you leave in the hotel room because it's too heavy is no use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) @kruzer...ANY of the cameras listed here will give you fantastic results....as long as you bear in mind the old adage...."if you put [censored] in....you'll get [censored] out".....! Over the years I've used everything from Linhof 20x16's....10x8's...Sinar P1's...to..RB67's..... Blads and Nikon F series..( great for landscapes, weddings and press work...)..Canons thru A1 / F1 to EOS series.....( great for sports and action photography )......my last 35mm purchase was 2x Minolta Maxxum 9000 series bodies and lenses.....a fantastic camera when it came out in 1986......great selection of lenses and accessories...and definitely a most under rated manufacturer and camera....at the moment I have the KM 7D....a Minolta 7i.......and a medium format Fuji GX680.....which I would love a digital back for......but still too expensive......unless you're using it commercially.....! However having looked at the market only last year...I considered everything from prosumer to pro cameras.....Nikon D1 and Canon EOS 1D series and the variants are all excellent cameras.....but unless you are using them for commercial purposes they represent too high an investment cost for the average amateur......Sony / Panasonic and Fuji also have good representation in the price level that you are probably pitching in......however a number of factors entered the equation when I compared my 4 front runners as my choice of semi pro DSLR....which utimately swayed me towards Minolta....as follows...! My first choice was Olympus E1....I liked the idea of the 4/3rds concept.....but unfortunately didn't see many other manufacturers jumping on that train....so I didn't want to be an early adopter and then find myself saddled with a VHS vs Beta format .....so dismissed it...! My next choice was Nikon D50 / D70......D50 was dismissed because it doesn't take CF or Microdrive....which left the D70....great camera..great lenses.......however no user definable settings.....and no Anti-Shake..so dismissed....! Next was the Canon EOS 300 / 350 series.....far too menu driven...and a small screen....meant I dismissed it early on......also...Anti Shake is built into the lenses...which means added expense......and once again no user definable settings....! Last choice was the recently introduced KM 7D.......which was winning awards all over the place.....big menu and viewing screen.....screen display auto switches between landscape and portrait view.....as soon as you rotate the body......Anti Shake built into the body....so you can use ANY suitable lens....it also has a great flash system.....multi use 5600's and a dedicated ring flash should it be required.....but the clincher was a very specific set of features..! 1....the ability to move beyond fully automatic settings such as Portrait mode / Landscape mode / Full Program.....and actually set the camera up how I wanted it......and LOCK all of those settings into a user defined Memory 1 or 2 or 3 setting......the benefit is as follows....! Suppose you take your kids to Disneyworld......and you wander around taking 'snaps'.....you can just use full Program mode and the camera will work everything out....so you get home....and your new Pam 212 has arrived......so you want to photograph it ....you then have to choose another program which may be generally suitable for 'macro' work......but it means you have to change almost everything..."ISO"...'white balance"....."aperture"......"over / under exposure"..."auto bracketing"......etc etc......so you do that.....then you switch the camera off......RESULT.....you've possibly lost all those settings.....as most cameras will revert to a default setting......! With the KM7D......I can set everything I want......'white balance'...even the 'colour temperature".....ISO setting......+/- exposure......sharpness...contrast.....Adobe RGB colour settings......ANYTHING....and LOCK it into Memory 1.....and recall exactly EVERY setting....at the touch of a switch.......not only that....but if I find myself shooting a lot of night shots.....I can do the same and LOCK it into Memory 2.....and so on....3x User Defined programes...as well as all the full auto programs that the camera offers in standard modes....absolutely brilliant......the Canon / Nikons / Olympus don't offer this facility......! Then there's the Anti Shake facility ...which will allow me an extra 2x stops over a convential DSLR / lens combo......in other words....if I'm shooting inside the New York Museum.....with a Canon / Nikon......say set at f5.6 / 120 shutter speed.....that's it......with the KM7D......I can open up the aperture to f11....giving me greater depth of field than with the C/ N combo......or increase my shutter speed by 2x stops......perhaps to stop blurry movement....or the extra 2x stops will let me shoot at lower shutter speeds with no 'shake'.......N/ C don't offer that facility built in.....and believe me.....it WORKS.....and is a great facility.....! The third deciding factor for me....was the fact the the 7D is not like most DSLR's....it is not menu driven....it works like an older 35mm SLR....with virtually all necessary controls operated by conventional dials and buttons......flash bracketing.....+/- exposure.......drive modes.....very familiar to anyone who has used 35mm pro or serious amateur SLR's....easy to use....you don't need to take the camera from your eye to look at a menu system in order to adjust the camera......easy peasy.....also it has a very rugged body and is built like a brick shithouse......albeit not the kind of bricks that Nikon used in the F2's......! The results from the 7D are every bit as impressive as any comparable priced DSLR from any other manufacturer...and in most instances are better.......there is a fantastic selection of lenses from Minolta and many other manf'rs ..Sigma ....Tokina etc tc......plus lots of accessories.....! At it's price level.....I believe the 7D offers more than any of the others.....there will always be flag bearers for most makes......fortunately I always felt able to stand back back and be objective about most of them......no great loyalty to any particular brand....just what works for me......as the old saying goes.......the proof is in the pudding........ PS.....I forgot to say......I would go for the KM 5D.......virtually all of the features of the 7D at a more affordable price...and getting rave reviews....! Edited March 19, 2006 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willster Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 spent the weekend at camera shops.....played with Nikons (D50 and D70) and Canon 350 D70 nice.....kit lense better than Canon.....but heavier than 350D..... toss up between two.....but ordered the 350D w/ image stabilizer 28 -135 lense for starters Have both Canon and Nikon...systems film cameras "F"s with lots of toys and love them both seems like Canon Lense choices better now than Nikon...but they are only months a way from catching up did manage to save $300 + USD on Canon which will go towards another lense guys here pretty much know their stuff...especially TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighDef Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Reminds me of something said to me by the immortal Jeff Cooper.... "the results of a lowly .22 in the hands of a combat master can be quite gratifying, whereas those of a medium tank driven by a baboon never can be" I would build my light box first - take plenty of photos and learn just what your requirements are. Most will take good watch shots without too much difficulty if set right. Your choice may ultimately be governed by 'comfort' features like the ability to hotchange flash cards, multiple stored settings etc. I agree. If you only would use a camera to take watch pics, a 4MP standard digi camera would be fine. Get a light box and shoot a lot for practice. Then get a good SLR digi camera because by then you would like to go to some beach during the summer to take pics from a distance. You know,,the waves and the sand and sun set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 This was a fascinating thread for a photo newbie like me. Thank you everyone, especially TTK. I'm going shopping and the Minolta's are at the top of my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Great advice from a lot of people. TTK- Well now I know why you are a fabulous photographer. You have obviously done it for may years in very different environments and with many types of equipment. Thanks for a lot of very useful info. I love the idea of not having to reinvent the wheel when moving from kids in the pool to the watches or pens . My last nice camera was an F3 Hipoint (dating myself) so I am used to usinging old school controls. I find it shocking that the Nikon does not have the anti-shake feature. On the Canon it sounds like the key complaint is that the camera feels a lot less solid than some others. On the Minolta, I did not know that Minolta was discontinuing making cameras. That does give me pause. My wife just asked me when we are getting the camera. It's a good day. Now if that 187 would only arrive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 No problem.....! As far as Minolta discontinuing.....all they've done is shift focus to different technologies...leaving cameras ..simply because they couldn't produce their own CCD's........they've sold the production rights to Sony who are bringing out a new DSLR with KM mount....Sony have also taken over the servicing aspect of all KM cameras.....I was at first a little sceptical ...but truth be told...Sony servicing will be better than KM.....also...Sony weren't able to produce an SLR lens mount.....so bought the technology from KM...and with Sony producing their own CCD's....the future looks good for Minolta....albeit with a Sony name.....but hey that's no different from the period when they bonded with Konica.....who remembers Konica cameras......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 T-3 baby. Been there and done that. Dating myself again. Is Mamiya still around? I borrowed an RB-45 for quite a while froma good friend. The poor man's Hasselblad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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