lanikai Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Panerai 104 overall a good buyu.. we've been waiting for this one from last year .. worth the wait.. instead of the negatives let's go with something positive first.. the cyclops has improve no match for chieftang though .. but an improvement over the 092.. although the cyclops on my 229 is a bit better.. no distortion on that one.. and the AR is pretty much as the genuine is .. although to compare the crystal to a genuine Panerai is like comparing apples and oranges.. but for my purposes let's say i am pleased.. the dial is a bit off.. from the l swiss made L to the marker at the 11 I will leave the detailed review to those who are more knowledgable with the panerai's .. but here are some pics [attac ment=19195:IMG_2269.JPG] thanks for viewing lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 great pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poopypants Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) is the date font in fact like gen? i am looking at getting a 164... but when i look at the images and see the rotor having decals as opposed to being engraved or painted, i get a little concerned over quality... Edited January 11, 2008 by poopypants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 is the date font in fact like gen? i am looking at getting a 164... but when i look at the images and see the rotor having decals as opposed to being engraved or painted, i get a little concerned over quality... personally .. lellos DW are closer to genuine. or "like" the genuine.. but this is a vast improvement over the past years.. when the font was the asian eta. or swiss eta font.. you should look at the overall build.. IMHO instead of individual flaws that will probably never be perfect .. unless you put a lot of $$ in Mod work, i think the panerai rep can be like a fishing pleasure boat.. you just keep putting more money into it.. so i have a limit for how much i want to put into it.... and u still have to source the parts.. genuine parts will not fit.. so for me this is a great improvement over the previous model.. edit: the crown.. ziggy has moded the genuine crown to fit my 029 it is thinner and has more "teeth" refer to my post on bazonkers thread ..his 229 post.. i have pics of the genuine crwon.. as far as I know only Ziggy hs been sucsessful in modding the genuine crown to the rep. ... the CG if you can ever get a genuine .. can not fit.. regading the engraving.. most of the movements come from a 'state" run factory where contraband is off limits.. thus when makers engrave a rotor, they do it seperately from the movement factory.. it runs into extra cost passed on to us..the majority of the population never heard of panerai.. so for my purposes .. it's all good.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Nice 104! Thinking of ordering one myself Slightly off topic... Found this pic on a gen forum. Note the L Swiss Made L. I thought this was supposed to be a flaw on the older 104 reps..... edit: the watch on this pic seems to be a PAM048 instead of a PAM104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 edit: the crown.. The Zigmeister has moded the genuine crown to fit my 029 it is thinner and has more "teeth" refer to my post on bazonkers thread ..his 229 post.. i have pics of the genuine crwon.. as far as I know only The Zigmeister hs been sucsessful in modding the genuine crown to the rep. ... the CG if you can ever get a genuine .. can not fit.. Re: the CG: It's all about the length of the tube and stem, baby. What you want is the inside lip of the OEM crown to sit flush w/ the side of the case when the lever pushed the spring all the way, as per gen. In the experience of my local smith, who's fitted about 10 OEM crowns to both handwinds and autos, OEM CG's and Jimmy's fit w/o modification and stock rep CG's need to be milled on the underside to properly lock. If that's not an option, the tube and stem have to made longer which means that the above description of the lip can't be achieved. CG's that have been previously modded to fit palp crowns? Fugettabotit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerwine Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 It would seem, based on the issue of the "L Swiss Made L" placement that the 164 (All of the other QC questions considered equal) would be the "Best" of the 3 out of the box. Save for the size of the Dots as dial markers and those could be possibly be addressed during a re-lume. As far as the "L Swiss..." issue on the 104, there seems to be some question about the "L kissing the butt of the 6, even on gens. The picture of the 104 on Timezone.com, Panerai reference, Contemporary, shows the "L Swiss" almost kissing the "6", plus the previous picture in this thread, could lead you down the Panerai Model Differentation road like with other models ( Slight odd-ball changes as yearly models evolve). This is one of the neat issues about Pams, always expect the unexpected. Rogerwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 It would seem, based on the issue of the "L Swiss Made L" placement that the 164 (All of the other QC questions considered equal) would be the "Best" of the 3 out of the box. Save for the size of the Dots as dial markers and those could be possibly be addressed during a re-lume. As far as the "L Swiss..." issue on the 104, there seems to be some question about the "L kissing the butt of the 6, even on gens. The picture of the 104 on Timezone.com, Panerai reference, Contemporary, shows the "L Swiss" almost kissing the "6", plus the previous picture in this thread, could lead you down the Panerai Model Differentation road like with other models ( Slight odd-ball changes as yearly models evolve). This is one of the neat issues about Pams, always expect the unexpected. Rogerwine I agree, Roger, and I sense a classic RWG myth being born. The rep is of an I series piece so it appears to me that the 104 pictured here means the L SWISS is pretty high on the gen. It's always tempting to say that things we think ugly (which the "6 butt kissing" L siss certainly does) are innacurate (which in this case isn't). We ought to really just look at some pics of the watches actually being repped before we go and make pronouncements. I know I've sure been guilty of this. Anyway, given those timezone pics, the 104 is definitely the most accurate of the 3. A DW, crown, and a lume and it's as good as you can make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Nice 104! Thinking of ordering one myself Slightly off topic... Found this pic on a gen forum. Note the L Swiss Made L. I thought this was supposed to be a flaw on the older 104 reps..... I wonder if that's a 48. Really off topic: that guy's wrist looks like a giant version of my sons wrist when he was a chubby 2 year old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 I wonder if that's a 48. Really off topic: that guy's wrist looks like a giant version of my sons wrist when he was a chubby 2 year old... Hmmm, I think you're right. I wasn't aware of the existence of this model. Learning everyday But that wrist, hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I agree, Roger, and I sense a classic RWG myth being born. The rep is of an I series piece so it appears to me that the 104 pictured here means the L SWISS is pretty high on the gen. It's always tempting to say that things we think ugly (which the "6 butt kissing" L siss certainly does) are innacurate (which in this case isn't). We ought to really just look at some pics of the watches actually being repped before we go and make pronouncements. I know I've sure been guilty of this. Anyway, given those timezone pics, the 104 is definitely the most accurate of the 3. A DW, crown, and a lume and it's as good as you can make it. thank you .. i now stand corrected and pleasantly so.. i should do more research as now "it's all good".. ok lello commented he will have DW.. i have a gen. crown and it's going for relume as soon as the DW is available.. if one thing good came from my blunder it's 'learning" to do the footwork before posting as i am sure this is the first time it's happened.. so i will learn form the members that have gone down the same road.. .. and now can pass it on.. so do you guy's think the 11 marker is a bit off or is that an original genuine flaw.. or am i crossed eyed?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 thank you .. i now stand corrected and pleasantly so.. i should do more research as now "it's all good".. ok lello commented he will have DW.. i have a gen. crown and it's going for relume as soon as the DW is available.. if one thing good came from my blunder it's 'learning" to do the footwork before posting as i am sure this is the first time it's happened.. so i will learn form the members that have gone down the same road.. .. and now can pass it on.. so do you guy's think the 11 marker is a bit off or is that an original genuine flaw.. or am i crossed eyed?? I wasn't coming after you Lani, just making a general observation based on almost 5 years around here and unintenionally spreading misinfo more than once myself by not following the golden rule of rep evaluating: "My memory is OK, but a pic of a gen is the final word." I think the 11 is a little off at high zoom, but probably not on the wrist, and even better is probably fixable during the course of a The Zigmeister relume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I wasn't coming after you Lani, just making a general observation based on almost 5 years around here and unintenionally spreading msinfo more than once myself by not following the golden rule of rep evaluating: "My memory is OK, but a pic of a gen is the final word." I think the 11 is a little off at high zoom, but probably not on the wrist, and even better is probably fixable during the course of a Ziggy relume. I understand Arch... didn't take it personal.. you are 100% correct in the fact that i went with what other members whom I thought had more knowledge that myself.. ...even monkeys fall out of trees..... meaning no one is infallible.. so it is a lesson well learned to verify all info before posting, or putting an asterisk next to the statement.. I should know better after the time that i have been here.. so i will take this as a learning experience and be mindful not to repeat it.. I try and learn by my mistakes .. insanity is defined as doing the same thing expecting different results.. so, no worries.. hey, what happened to all the stuff everyonee else has.. .lightning bolt,.. stars .. agree... unfriendly .. Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 The rep is of an I series piece so it appears to me that the 104 pictured here means the L SWISS is pretty high on the gen. ...innacurate (which in this case isn't). Hi J., I suppose that my bad English is once again playing tricks on me. I got a bit confused. What relation is there between an "I" rep and the picture you pointed to? (that, in consideration of the open "6" and the 2600 millesimation stated at the bottom of the page, rather looks as a "G" series?). Even if that pic is of a J series, what relation with the I rep? Here is a pic of a "I" series: To make the things even more confused: 1 - There has a been a case report of at least one I series with open 6 (possiby those are exceptions due to using residual dials from the H series on the earliest pieces of the I series). 2 - There have been reports that the J series actually have the "L SWISS MADE L" close to the 6. Ok. But you tell that the rep is I series (on the caseback, I suppose). And that makes the "L SWISS MADE L" placement inaccurate. 3 - Finally, the /1500 millesimation is inaccurate to an I series (it should be /4000). To me, that rep looks badly inaccurate in its caseback, and possibly in the "L SWISS MADE L" placement. The caseback is inaccurate on its own because of the "/1500" thing. The "L SWISS MADE L" issue is on hold until more consistent info about the look of the J series will become available. But should it even result accurate to a J series, it stays inconsistent with an I series... Or not? BTW, the BB102xxxx number would even suggest a D series... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Even if that pic is of a J series, what relation with the I rep? Here is a pic of a "I" series: To make the things even more confused: 2 - There have been reports that the J series actually have the "L SWISS MADE L" close to the 6. Ok. But you tell that the rep is I series (on the caseback, I suppose). And that makes the "L SWISS MADE L" placement inaccurate. Or not? BTW, the BB102xxxx number would even suggest a D series... You may be right, my friend. I assumed by the date of the TZ post that linked to that page that the the watch was an I series--they could have posted pictures of a J or an earlier model--so I violated my own suggestion! As far as the missemilation or case numbers, I have no idea...not a good sign though, if it is wrong. That link says 2600. It seems to me though that on the wrist, the watch is exceptionally accurate and can be made as close as any rep made to 1:1 w/ just a few very common mods--especially since (either earlier or J) there are 4000 genuine pieces w/ the L Swiss close to the 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plant Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hi J., I suppose that my bad English is once again playing tricks on me. I got a bit confused. What relation is there between an "I" rep and the picture you pointed to? (that, in consideration of the open "6" and the 2600 millesimation stated at the bottom of the page, rather looks as a "G" series?). Even if that pic is of a J series, what relation with the I rep? Here is a pic of a "I" series: To make the things even more confused: 1 - There has a been a case report of at least one I series with open 6 (possiby those are exceptions due to using residual dials from the H series on the earliest pieces of the I series). 2 - There have been reports that the J series actually have the "L SWISS MADE L" close to the 6. Ok. But you tell that the rep is I series (on the caseback, I suppose). And that makes the "L SWISS MADE L" placement inaccurate. 3 - Finally, the /1500 millesimation is inaccurate to an I series (it should be /4000). To me, that rep looks badly inaccurate in its caseback, and possibly in the "L SWISS MADE L" placement. The caseback is inaccurate on its own because of the "/1500" thing. The "L SWISS MADE L" issue is on hold until more consistent info about the look of the J series will become available. But should it even result accurate to a J series, it stays inconsistent with an I series... Or not? BTW, the BB102xxxx number would even suggest a D series... What is this exact model? Its just what I am after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 so do you guy's think the 11 marker is a bit off or is that an original genuine flaw.. or am i crossed eyed?? I'd say that the 11 and 1 markers are the same distance from 'dial center' as the 5 and 7 markers are. I'd suggest that it the difference in width between the 12 and 6 markers might be throwing the eye off slightly... Hope all's well with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 What is this exact model? Its just what I am after! Which model? The one in the pic I posted is a genuine PAM 104 I-series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: the CG: It's all about the length of the tube and stem, baby. What you want is the inside lip of the OEM crown to sit flush w/ the side of the case when the lever pushed the spring all the way, as per gen. In the experience of my local smith, who's fitted about 10 OEM crowns to both handwinds and autos, OEM CG's and Jimmy's fit w/o modification and stock rep CG's need to be milled on the underside to properly lock. If that's not an option, the tube and stem have to made longer which means that the above description of the lip can't be achieved. CG's that have been previously modded to fit palp crowns? Fugettabotit. The sound of wisdom rings true.... FGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 This is getting very wierd: Just came accross a pic posted by someone trying to sell a 104I. The back checks out, but the dial has the high L SWISS and open 6....The only explanation is OP changed dials during the run, right? Still, it looks like the rep factories worked their usual magic--putting the wrong text w/ the wrong number. I hear that DSN has been working with a member who's knowledge of PAMs I trust completely, so I have high hopes that we still have a goos chance at an near 1:1 104. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 .... I hear that DSN has been working with a member who's knowledge of PAMs I trust completely, so I have high hopes that we still have a goos chance at an near 1:1 104. Let's hope so, cause this one has too many flaws for me to spent $250 - $300 on... this is a price that is good for a replica that is difficult to replica (say like the IWC Aquatimer) and is very, very close and without dumb mistakes that we even didn't go for 4 years ago. To me the flaws and the high price don't mix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 And to completely dash our hopes that that dial is accurate, here's a pic of a 104J. Automatic PAM lovers--pls. remember to keep Davidsen's CNC and dial guys in your nightly prayers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 It amazes me that none of the makers can make such a simple dial. It seems they are not even trying. I mean - look at some of the other replica dials from Breitling or even the Rollies. They should just use a graphic versus using some [censored] incorrect font. Who made the 089 dial. Lets beg them to make a 104 dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 This is getting very wierd: Just came accross a pic posted by someone trying to sell a 104I. The back checks out, but the dial has the high L SWISS and open 6....The only explanation is OP changed dials during the run, right? Exactly, my friend! That is exatly the watch I was speaking about: 1 - There has a been a case report of at least one I series with open 6 (possiby those are exceptions due to using residual dials from the H series on the earliest pieces of the I series). Here is another pic of it: That watch also has an OP 6630 case number: atypical to I series, it would make a better fit to H-series. In the end, that watch is H-series as its dial and case. I bet it was an unsold 104H that the Officine got reprinted in serial nr, and they sold it as an I-series. I wonder how many 104s underwent that same fate that year. That watch is serialized 604/4000, i.e. not too high. I suspect that the earlier 20% of the I-series might be alike. Just, I would not say that the "L SWISS MADE L" is so close to the "6". The high "L SWISS MADE L" should be of J-series only (according with the rumors, at least)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 If they at least fix the serial numbers in the caseback and print the "L SWISS MADE L" further away from the 6... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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