Full disclosure and accurate descriptions in sales ads.

[jkerouac]

I've only purchased a handful of used watches, and those from veteran members. I have been satisfied with all three.

I have a few watches that I would consider selling, but most have flaws, so I would discount them to the point that it is hardly worth the effort.

What is absolutely not worth the effort is damaging your reputation for the $50 or $100 extra you might make by misrepresenting something that you have for sale. Even if a person is a "hit and run" type who will never visit the board again, are these paltry sums worth the knowledge of what a cheap [censored] you are?

[Guest Carl]

The use of a does very little, if not nothing, to take the sting out of what is ultimately a very elitist and nasty post.

Carl has made a totally valid point. His 'status' does nothing to change, invalidate or affirm that point, and for the record, I don't believe he was actually trying to change anything.

Carl, as Offshore said, these are not trivial issues, it would not be unfair to name the supplier if they have not offered proper restitutions. As you say, $700 is a lot of money. It's certainly a lot of money to 'be down' due to bum merchandise.

Best of luck getting a satisfactory resolution.

Actually, there is only one Carl on this board.

My feelings are that private communication should be attempted first in an attempt to resolve any problems.

That has been the most constructive part of putting all of this up on the internet.

If that fails, feel free to share that failure with all of us. That is important. I have shared my experiences good and bad.

That is the main reason for this board to exist. If you can't get it here, where else?

Carl

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

Im actually not looking for a solution from the membership. I have been in contact with two of the sellers and they have both offered to make a full refund. I have also explained to both sellers that was NOT the point of my post. The purpose of my post was to get a feel for if this was a situation that occurs infrequently and I was just unlucky. OR, if it was becoming a regular occurance as I beleive it is.

I seem to recall having a similar conversation concerning pictures and the effect they would have on another members reputation... Because both sellers have done what I feel was the right thing to do, I dont care to offer photographs. I assure you, there is no way to mistake a screw broken off in a lug, missing and stripped screws and deep gouges from the use of inappropriate tools.

And as an aside, thank you in the above post for the suggestion to change web browsers. It appears that Mozzila didnt like the credit card system used by the forum. IE worked fine!

@carlsbad..this is in no way implying that you are telling nothing but the truth, but can you support your claim by posting pics?

i personally have never bought any pieces from non collectors.. although i have learned to first check references from veteran members, on anything that involves sales by individual members..there are a few members that I would not hesitate to take at their word.. but in reality what is to stop someone from a one time deal and be gone?

posting pics would give everyone more insight into finding a solution for you and find solutions to these growing situations... there have been to many post about private buy's that have gone bad..

[lanikai]

I'm sure what you say is factual ..

pics would validate claims ... if you squared it away with the parties involved that is good.. but somehow I feel that at times it would seem like "chasing ghosts" if statements about the validity of members are in question then shouldn't pictures be offered up.. anonimity need not be broken ??

[spookycord]

I have been in contact with two of the sellers and they have both offered to make a full refund. I have also explained to both sellers that was NOT the point of my post. ... Because both sellers have done what I feel was the right thing to do.

And this is why I prefer buying from members; if you aren't happy, which happens very very rarely for me, most members are gonna do the right thing. Obviously as mentioned, do your research on who you are buying from. Almost all my reps are from other members through purchase or trade, but that's just my personal preference. To me that is part of the community aspect of this forum and hobby.

People have different thresholds on condition. What if we implemented a standard sales layout/template and condition rating/scale? It would reduce some of the subjectivity that comes with member sales and disclosure.

[Pix]

I'm usually not for frames for anything : but for rep sales it makes sense.

RWG is the only board (correct me if I'm wrong) which has not formalized the member sales, I mean "strictly".

I first thought this might be more comfortable (as it sometimes take a lot of efforts to comply with all the conditions set in RWI for instance). But actually, it would help a lot, especially members who are not used to ask the right questions.

We all know that it's not the job of the boards administration to control the sales (these are a service in the forum, not the main purpose). But a stricter frame would not hurt. And it is basically not so difficult to achieve, as we have inspiration from the other boards.

Personally, I would feel comfortable if 3 pictures were compulsory : front/back/side. Very simple things, but sometimes we don't have them.

Finally anyway, if a member wants to cheat, he will manage, that's for sure. But rules would at least AVOID some misunderstandings.

I would be ready if necessary to participate a group in charge of organizing a form or something. That's not a sudden need to rule things, just a suggestion to help if la ack of manpower is existing.

[hambone]

Because of the clandestine nature of our hobby , I have been reluctant to purchase 'used' replica watches and simply not wanting to deal with the potential hassles, while eliminating watches I am tired of I have either given them away or sold at a much reduced price to a friend. I think it is great however where a fellow collector has taken the time to add mods and improve the watch they are now selling. That can be a good benefit in this game. The shelf life of the watches we collect has yet to be determined, and while we all hope they will last many years, the chance that they might not is real, and so I prefer to purchased from known dealers a watch that is new and pristine. The first rule when buying a used rep is 'caveat empor'. After that there is no one to blame.

[Pugwash]

The first rule when buying a used rep is 'caveat empor'. After that there is no one to blame.

Sure there is. You can always blame someone who actively and knowingly defrauds you. It is, after all, their fault.

[spookycord]

Sure there is. You can always blame someone who actively and knowingly defrauds you. It is, after all, their fault.

Though this is a true statement pug, I think we should distinguish between fraud and non disclosure (without intent to defraud). As pix said, if someone wants to scam or hit and run, they will find a way and get away with it. I don't think there is an easy way to combat this. On the other hand, using a standard sales format, we could reduce the amount of non disclosure by honest members who simply don't know what they don't know. I feel the overwhelming majority of the community are honest fair people, but we are all different. I might not mention this hairline because it's insignificant to me, or neglect to take a picture of a caseback which unknowingly to me, should be a display back.

The sales form doesn't even NEED to be enforced by the admins. It can be a recommended layout, which if widely used will become the standard and eventually community members will demand an ad be in the layout or not buy from the seller.

[rogerthat]

I have been fortunate to have some sucess selling and buying reps that have been lightly used.

With the way many of these reps are coming from the dealers, at least buying one already in the possession of an honest member allows you to know of any problems before hand, avoid customs risks and last but not least feed our fix during Chinese New Year shut down.

Cheers,

M