sssurfer Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Some time ago, by pretty hijacking a different thread, I dared to say that the movement in the PAM 090/124/222 rep, the Seagull ST (or TY) 2530, was as good as the ETA 2892-A2 that powers the PAM 027/028 (both gens and reps). That statement got some criticisms, mainly based on two considerations: 1. The Zigmeister always appreciated the 2892-A2. 2. The ST 2530 has no date set position of the crown, so it lacks one function in comparison with the 2892-A2. As a owner and an extensive wearer of both a 028, a 090, and a quasi-124, I have to confirm what I said. 1. The 2530 is superior to the 2892-A2 in its auto-winding easiness. I have to manually wind the 2892 any 2-3 days in order to keep it running on my wrist, while I get the 2530 authomatically fully wound in just a few hours I wear it. 2. The 2530 does not lack the quick-date-set function, it just has it on a separate pusher rather than on a crown position. Btw, this reduces the stress on the crown, crown guard, and stem ensemble (naturally disregarding the accuracy with the gen). 3. The additional lens on the 2530's date window is even better than the 2892's. 4. Smoothness and precision are at par on both. ... So, flame on, if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanro Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 Some time ago, by pretty hijacking a different thread, I dared to say that the movement in the PAM 090/124/222 rep, the Seagull ST (or TY) 2530, was as good as the ETA 2892-A2 that powers the PAM 027/028 (both gens and reps). That statement got some criticisms, mainly based on two considerations: 1. The Zigmeister always appreciated the 2892-A2. 2. The ST 2530 has no date set position of the crown, so it lacks one function in comparison with the 2892-A2. As a owner and an extensive wearer of both a 028, a 090, and a quasi-124, I have to confirm what I said. 1. The 2530 is superior to the 2892-A2 in its auto-winding easiness. I have to manually wind the 2892 any 2-3 days in order to keep it running on my wrist, while I get the 2530 authomatically fully wound in just a few hours I wear it. 2. The 2530 does not lack the quick-date-set function, it just has it on a separate pusher rather than on a crown position. Btw, this reduces the stress on the crown, crown guard, and stem ensemble (naturally disregarding the accuracy with the gen). 3. The additional lens on the 2530's date window is even better than the 2892's. 4. Smoothness and precision are at par on both. ... So, flame on, if you want. He, he...it is comforting to see I am not the only one who has to wind manually his 2892-A2 every now and then (the PAM27A you well know ). Still waiting to get someone who knows how to macro-shot your work of art... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) I own(ed) both of these movements... the cheap asian PR movement was great when I had it and it still runs in the same way on my friends wrist...as sssurfer said the asian movement gets fully wounded in a couple of hours when worn...for a little over 100$ this is one of best reps available (090,222,124,027/028 asians)...and it keeps time really accurately lately I've been having some problems with the 2892, something strange is happening...well I had probl from the very first beginning when I got the watch from EL...the mvt came broken...and when I got it back from the watcsmith again it didn't function properly...now the PR isn't good at all, once it is fully wound it stops randomly when worn, the PR pointer won't go furter down than 20-30 hrs...it is/was my mistake I haven't brought it back to the watchsmith immediately when I noticed it but I wanted so badly to wear it (waited for more than 3 months to be repaired in the first place)...next saturday is going back to the watchsmith to see where is the probl...hopefully nothing really bad... as I have said in another post, I wonder why the rep factories haven't done the asian PR pams (27/28) in a more accurate way...I bet the sales would be really great...cause the movements proved to be super reliable...now the only thing is to correct the dials,crowns,CG,and cases...and we would forget the ETA's really quickly! Edited March 3, 2008 by dadog13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 Wow, two great friends of mine here in a row! Thanks fellows for your feedback. Dadog, I was "just" comparing the ST/TY 2530 to the ETA 2892-A2. You also called the Asian 027/028 in, i.e. the Asian DG 3886 - DG 3886D3 movement. I also used to wear it extensively, and I was fully appointed with it too. It is even 1mm thinner than the monster 2530... As a matter of fact, the only score I can give the 2892-A2 so far is its incredibly low thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 sssurfer, you've got a master degree in PR asian movements!...great... do you think if the rep makers would improve the case/dial/CG/crown/caseback on the asian PR PAMs and leave the already great (cheap and reliable) movements in, that we would have a sort of SUPER rep? I am definitely sure that there is market for the auto PR Pams...or is it just me who is in love with them? P.S. I am just having some e-mail exchange with a member regarding the 028 2892 - maybe I will add it to my collection...depends on the price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 do you think if the rep makers would improve the case/dial/CG/crown/caseback on the asian PR PAMs and leave the already great (cheap and reliable) movements in, that we would have a sort of SUPER rep? Unfortunately, no. The position of the power reserve pin on the Asian movements is slightly different than on the genuine movements. That would prevent from a 100% dial even if the printing and all other features were perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) Unfortunately, no. The position of the power reserve pin on the Asian movements is slightly different than on the genuine movements. That would prevent from a 100% dial even if the printing and all other features were perfect. ...another dream vanished... well, then I'll have to pursue somebody to sell me his 028 with the 2892 mvt... ...and to add a nice 090 to complete the PR collection - 027//222 (have) // 028//090 (have to get) ..hopefully Panerai decides to make a re-edition of the 027/028 series or at least builds a PR that is nice (I don't like - from what I saw in the pics - the new PR pam - but I may be wrong!) Edited March 3, 2008 by dadog13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 the only thing that I could add to this post is that the movement in the 222 that I have is a bit loud...the 2892 is quiet when it comes to that...dunno if that's got something with the fact that the 2892 has been serviced...and definitely when the mvts are manually wounded the 2892 is smooth, while the one from the 222 is not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 I'm with Marco on this!!...My 2 090's (S/S, and fantasy PVD) both perform flawlessly, and the finish on the movements is impeccable for the price!! BTW...according to some "Seagull" info I've read, these movements actually have 35 jewels in this P/R configuration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Wow, another friend here! Thanks, Frank! A PVD 090?!? Interesting! Any pics? Btw, the 35 jewels thing is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Wow, another friend here! Thanks, Frank! A PVD 090?!? Interesting! Any pics? Btw, the 35 jewels thing is true. Here Ya go!! BTW...that was a @$3000. vintage Beanie Baby in their prime!!...And we think watch collectors are "patso"!!..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wowowowoooow!!! I LOVE IT! Thanks, a wonderful idea for my next project! BTW...that was a @$3000. vintage Beanie Baby in their prime!!...And we think watch collectors are "patso"!!..LOL Oh my! I think I still have a Bigo Bello from my early childhood somewhere... do you think I can trade it for a gen PAM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Sssurfer- Great post. I have found that the 2892's truly need regular service (every 3 years or so) and that is the price we pay for having them. It is a real pain in the neck. But as long as there is a date changer on the side, which may well be superior in terms of less stress on the watch, I have no interest in having a PAM rep with this movement. It is a glaring and unfixable flaw short of recasing the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I have found that the 2892's truly need regular service (every 3 years or so) and that is the price we pay for having them. It is a real pain in the neck. But as long as there is a date changer on the side, which may well be superior in terms of less stress on the watch, I have no interest in having a PAM rep with this movement. It is a glaring and unfixable flaw short of recasing the watch. Thanks for your feedback, kruzer! I absolutely agree about the unaccuracy issue, my post was just about the quality of the ST2530. On the recasing note, both ajoesmith and I are in search for a solution. Unfortunately, the ST2530 is almost doubly thick than a 2892A2: 7.35mm vs 3.65mm. All the PAM cases that we have tried so far could not accept it. The most plausible candidate was the Silix' Asian 027 case. It holds the DG 3886 movement, i.e. the second thickest movement in PAM reps (6.2mm thick). Results: no luck as well. Maybe one can make room enough by dremeling the caseback so to make it thinner, but this opens up to other issues as the Silix' 027 case is non-standard in other sizes of it. I am going to work on this project again as soon as I'll be done with a current cyclops batch that is taking more time than expected -- my apologies for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old skool Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Interesting info. Thank you. What does a ST 2530 movement cost that has p/r? Oops. I just read it is hard to fit it into a case. Edited March 6, 2008 by old skool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 What does a ST 2530 movement cost that has p/r? Not so easy to find. Some time ago I asked Cousinsuk if they could source it. They quoted about 19 GBP (if I remember correctly), but in the end they have not been able to source it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Interesting info. Thank you. What does a ST 2530 movement cost that has p/r? Oops. I just read it is hard to fit it into a case. Cannot be too much, since these 090's have been seen offered by dealers @ $100. from time to time...I got mine(in PVD) from WBK for that much!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 When you refer to the problems with the ETA 2892-A2, are your referring to the genuine ETA? I thought it was used in quite a few high priced genuine watches. Could one expect to have to manually wind one of these high end watches every third day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted April 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 When you refer to the problems with the ETA 2892-A2, are your referring to the genuine ETA? I thought it was used in quite a few high priced genuine watches. Could one expect to have to manually wind one of these high end watches every third day? I am referring to my [supposed] genuine ETA 2892-A2 PAM 028A. But my point is not about the 2892-A2 being a bad or good movement. It is known to be an excellent movement, The Zigmeister confirms it, and that's enough to me. Most likely, I have so sedentary habits to not allow that movement to autowind properly. My fault, not of the movement. My point is that the ST 2530 is instead even forgiving me for so sedentary habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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