hiker01 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 When you remove the crowns (and stem) from the movement, which way should it be; winding position? Date Adjust position? or Hour Adjust position??? I leave it at the winding position ang I've been having problems putting it back on ETA2836 and their Asian counterpart.... Is ther anything I'm doing wrong???? It works fine with the 6497, Swiss or Asian.....I have not tried it on the Chronos or 7750s. Is there a trick to doing this? Please advise and thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I can only share with you what has worked for me. I always remove the stem in the winding position, for a dozen of reasons including: in the winding position the clutch and lever are not under tension, the crown gear is held in place with the clutch gear, the stem lines up with the front and inner guides as it's inserted, etc... As for what you may be doing wrong with installation? Can't say for sure as I am not sitting next to you... On a 2836 type, you DON"T press the stem release pin, it's only used on release. Insert the crown and stem all the while TURNING it as you insert it, otherwise you may knock the clutch gear out of place, as you insert it, turn the crown in the winding direction and when you feel and see the movement winding (Rotor Removed of course, so as to not damage the cluck wheels) continue to turn the crown as you finish inserting the stem and it will lock in position. This works for me, on the 7750, you MUST press the release pin to have it go in. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I can only share with you what has worked for me. I always remove the stem in the winding position, for a dozen of reasons including: in the winding position the clutch and lever are not under tension, the crown gear is held in place with the clutch gear, the stem lines up with the front and inner guides as it's inserted, etc... As for what you may be doing wrong with installation? Can't say for sure as I am not sitting next to you... On a 2836 type, you DON"T press the stem release pin, it's only used on release. Insert the crown and stem all the while TURNING it as you insert it, otherwise you may knock the clutch gear out of place, as you insert it, turn the crown in the winding direction and when you feel and see the movement winding (Rotor Removed of course, so as to not damage the cluck wheels) continue to turn the crown as you finish inserting the stem and it will lock in position. This works for me, on the 7750, you MUST press the release pin to have it go in. RG Thanks a lot, RG! I think you pointed out where I did it wrong........that is, I was pressing the stem release pin while inserting the crown and pin!!! By doing this, I must have knocked out the clutch gear out of place, because now, it will not lock into position. This is BTW on a 21J movement, but I assume should also be true on a Swiss??? To fix the clutch gear or to put it back in place, does it need a complete dis-assembly of the movement??? Would the cost of this kind of service the same as buying a new movement? I guess on the 7750, it is the same procedure as the 6497. Again, thanks for your expert advice! Priceless!!!! Hike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 The key area I inspect before I decide if I am going to press on the release during installation, is the shape of the stem where it sits into the keyless works. On the ETA 28XX series, the stem has a taper or ramp to it, which means it should press the set lever arm up and out of the way as it's inserted. The 7750 series has no ramp or taper, it's 90 degrees to the stem, and needs the set lever release pin pressed down to get it in place. Never ever force anything, and your unlikely to damage the movement. The 6497 is a screw down set lever, not a pin, you unscrew, remove, insert, re-screw... If the keyless works is popped out of place, it could be damaged as well, accessing it is via the dial side of the movement, dial and hands come off, and you have to disassemble a number of brigedes etc to get access... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Well i have been doing it from the hand set position and it can be a pain in the ass to get it back in so from now on, gona try it the ziggy way, learn something new every day! One thing though i have a molnija and it was the first one i took apart and it was almost impossible to do it in any other position than hand set but from the hand set pos it was a piece of cake, horses for courses then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 The key area I inspect before I decide if I am going to press on the release during installation, is the shape of the stem where it sits into the keyless works. On the ETA 28XX series, the stem has a taper or ramp to it, which means it should press the set lever arm up and out of the way as it's inserted. The 7750 series has no ramp or taper, it's 90 degrees to the stem, and needs the set lever release pin pressed down to get it in place. Never ever force anything, and your unlikely to damage the movement. The 6497 is a screw down set lever, not a pin, you unscrew, remove, insert, re-screw... If the keyless works is popped out of place, it could be damaged as well, accessing it is via the dial side of the movement, dial and hands come off, and you have to disassemble a number of brigedes etc to get access... RG Thanks again! That's what worried me! I guess I'm better off buying a new Asian 21J! The 6497 was a breeze! Now I have to build the courage to do a Swiss 2836......and that's like most of the rollies I have! I guess greasing the O-ring on the tube from the outside without removing the steam would work just fine....and also putting some around the inner portion of the crown! Thanks again RG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I always remove the stem in the time-setting position. Why? Because I don't have The Zigmeister's skill and I'm not prepared to release the main spring like you're supposed to. The thought of unleashing the tension in the spring carefully scares the bejebus out of me. So, yes I do it wrongly, but I feel better about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I always remove the stem in the time-setting position. Why? Because I don't have The Zigmeister's skill and I'm not prepared to release the main spring like you're supposed to. The thought of unleashing the tension in the spring carefully scares the bejebus out of me. So, yes I do it wrongly, but I feel better about it. Hi Pug! Could you elaborate more on your procedure? Does this apply to the Swiss 2836 series and the Asian Version or to all the movements? Thanks Hike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I always remove the stem in the time-setting position. Why? Because I don't have The Zigmeister's skill and I'm not prepared to release the main spring like you're supposed to. The thought of unleashing the tension in the spring carefully scares the bejebus out of me. So, yes I do it wrongly, but I feel better about it. That doesn't make much sense Pug. Regardless whether you remove the stem in winding position or time or date setting position, it will not affect the mainspring. The mainspring is held in position by the click spring, which unless manually adjusted, will not release the mainspring. Now like Rob has said earlier, the safeist way is to remove the stem while in the winding position, the keyless works are in its natural place and removing the stem will be least likely to tamper and misplace the setting components. It is very common to mess up the keyless works in the 2824/2836 movement when removing the stem in the timesetting position so try to remember to leave the stem in winding when removal takes place. Hope that clears it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 My heartfelt thanks to The Zigmeister, MVB and Pug for replying to this post/topic! The information provided by these GENTS were priceless....and I'm pretty sure the whole community appreciated it, too! Thanks again guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 One other piece of advice that has been mentioned before but is worth repeating here. When removing the stem from ETA28xx series movement use only a correctly sized screwdriver that will fit the cutout that surrounds the release pin (1.2mm). Anything smaller and you risk pressing the release pin in too deeply and disturbing the keyless works when removing the stem. You'll know you have done this when the pin remains stuck down and the stem will not reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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