fishgodeep Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 I just wanted to share these pics for comparison and hopefully start some debate with expert input. I have very little expert knowledge on the correct shade of PVD for A series PAM's - but these 2 are completely different. The PAM009 as shown recently was done by Rolli - who I know has researched long and hard to achieve the anthracite gray finish on the case set and buckle. The PAM028 was purchased from member Lolos back in February and has just returned from "Rehab" in Canada - it looks like it had overdosed on "abuse" whilst in the hands of it's previous owner. The case has been PVD's by Jack at International Watch Works - (http://www.angelfire.com/blues/andcameysiww/Firstpage.html) But I don't think this is the "Stealth Max" finish that he normally does. The quandary I have is that the 28 set also came with what I believe is an OEM A series 2 screw buckle - which is in the exact same colour PVD finish. I assumed this was a SS one originally and went with the case to IWW. The second quandary is the OEM crown (purchased from enesefe on Ebay) - this has the same "blue" colour nuances as the case set and buckle - although I purchased this separately and Ziggy installed. So I am no left wondering if the A series buckle is in the original OEM PVD - and Lolos had the case set matched to it. The OEM crown - which by deduction must have been made originally for PAM 28 - is such a good match to the case I know which one I prefer and think is correct - but could do with some input. I have many photos from Rolli of 202a that look to be the same colour as the Jack IWW - and photos of 009/004 that look exactly like Rolli's PVD... What do you guys and gals think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 S- They both look great. As you know it is all about the bead blasting methodology and chemical compound applied. The older PAM's were done at a time when the state of the art technology was TiN or TiAln (can't remember which is which). Both finishes are inferior in durability to more contemporary DLC which is what is on the 195 and looks very different. In terms of flexibility to manipulate color I believe Tin is what is used by architectural firms seeking to mimic existing pieces. It is also what is used as the base for durable gold plating. The problem with comparisons is that pictures can vary dramatically based on external lighting and flash used. And to make it more confusing no two batches of PVD are exactly the same which is why you can see differences from one watch to another. What I will say is that if one case matches up better to the gen crown that is probably the better coat. Having said that both coatings look beyond reproach. Jack's stealth max looks very different and is $600 including bead blasting. And by the way I have several PVD crowns from the A and B automatics and they vary as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 They certainly both look great, congrats. It's very difficult to rate 'PVD' from pics and I don't own a genuine A series example but I have a local friend who has a gen 4A. For what it's worth your 09 looks closer to his genuine 4A, at least from your pics but it's difficult to argue with the gen crown. I don't know if the finish on the A&B series handwids was the same as the autos but looking back through a library of photos that I've collected the autos seem to be darker. This may simply be the pics though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 So hard to tell from pics, and as kruzer pointed out the PVD varries even within gens. I'm pf the thinking that our best bet is to "rep" the beadblasting of a gen sample and then PVD using the method used on the original, e.g. see if you can find someone to beadblast as per a gen crown, CG, case and then have the piece PVD'd using whatever method OP used on the specific watch (TiN, TiAln, or DLC as the case may be). One misconception I can lay to rest is that the kind of beadblasting done would neccessitate a certain method of PVD application. Beadblasting is beadblasting. PVD is PVD. Each effects the final look in its own way but they are two discrete parts of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted April 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Gents - thanks for your input. I agree on the photos ...tried many angles under the same light to show the shades etc. I think the crown match to the case on the 28 is clearly visible though. What it doesn't show as well is the difference vs Rolli's 009 - the 28 has a distinct "blue steel" (Zoolander??!) hue that is disconcerting on its own until you compare to OEM images - again could be trickery of the lighting. If this was a competition ...I think Rolli's would win Price wise- Rolli's comes in a shade under $500 all in - Jack's is $600+ I believe Any one else got aftermarket PVD to show please ....28 especially so. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 The now extinct Finepics TiN or TiAlN (can't remember which): By the way, if anyone has a dial or case upgrade please let me know. The A's drive me crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkdk Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 yo kruzer. That looks exactly like the 004 i bought of a user on trc some years ago. Is this one yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkdk Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 heres a picture of mine for comparison i always thought the pvd was a bit too dark. Honestly i was wondering if it even was real pvd, because of the dark colour btw. pic is from previous owner fitch from trc mods done are River pam001 lello crown jimmy crownguard recessed pin upgrade genuine pvd (according to same specs as pam004 pvd coating) PAV0099 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Yours looks similar. Prior to Rolli the only aftermarket PVD opportunities I was aware of were Jack at IWCC who has changed his coating, the original Palpatine DLC, a couple of pieces coming out of Australia through Ajoesmith/David and Finepics. Palpatine actually went to the trouble to find an OEM supplier to PAM. But the maufacturer had stopped doing Ti processes by the time hw got to him. He had moved on to DLC. I had a piece done that way but it was way off. What we didn't know is that it is most likely the DLC on the gen 195. I suspect Jay would remember the name. Finepics had a good coater but the guy definitely had good and bad runs and ultimately they stopped doing watchs. I have a Bell and Ross with the Ajoesmith/David PVD coating. The color is good for a PAM but the beadblasting is off so you ended up with a flatter finish relative to gen A and B PAM's. I did mine through Finepics a couple of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 The now extinct Finepics TiN or TiAlN (can't remember which): TiAlN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJay Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 PAM0009A top PAM0195 bottom PAM0195 L PAM0009A R Pre-V 24X24 L Pre-V 24X22 R Pre-A Buckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Sooooooooooo jealous! Jay, your collection kills me everytime you post some of your gems. I'd kill for EITHER a 195 or 009, let alone both!!! Hmmmmm, maybe I should have my gen 002 PVD/DLC coated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asad Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Beautiful PVDs Here is mine: A davidsan PVD case with 2 hours of cape codding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 here is the pam195 pvd. the dark-tints on the pvd coating are fingerprints. rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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