Unitas 6497 or Clone?

[Sprintz25]

I bought my first Pam the other day, a Luminor 111H. Took the caseback off today and cannot find an ETA stamp. It was sold as Swiss and i'm wondering if our resident experts can chime in and tell me if its asian or swiss and what are the tells. Are there any Unitas that arent stamped?

Thanks in advance

[Guest avitt]

It doesn't look Swiss to me.

It also looks like a 6497-2, which, if Swiss, would be prohibitively expensive (speaking for myself ).

[rmcsherry]

Definetly a 6497-2; if you could ever find a Swiss 6497-2, it would have standard Unitas plates - Soprod (?) make custom plates exclusively for Panerai. Saying that, the ETA stamp doesn't mean it'd be Swiss anyway - the only way to ensure you a getting a genuine Swiss 6497 is to buy one from a material house. The movement you've got is pretty good though, The Zigmeister did a review last year of the new 'high beat' movements, and seemed to be impressed!

[Sprintz25]

I just found this thread (looked for one like it for hours before i posted)

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...asian+swan+neck

so its definately not swiss. I bought on ioffer (my first purchase from a non board recommended dealer) for $305. What would a watch like this with an asian 6497 be worth?

I am going to ask the dealer to issue me with a refund and by my estimation it should be in the order of $100. Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks everyone

[klocklind1]

It is NOT an Swiss 6497-2 because You could see that on the spokes of the balance that has "wide" spokes instead of straight ones, and I have NEVER seen a swiss 6497-2 movement on a replica!!!

I bought my first Pam the other day, a Luminor 111H. Took the caseback off today and cannot find an ETA stamp. It was sold as Swiss and i'm wondering if our resident experts can chime in and tell me if its asian or swiss and what are the tells. Are there any Unitas that arent stamped?

Thanks in advance

[sssurfer]

Also, it has a dagger swan neck that qualifies it as Asian.

All Swiss 6497 come with a needle swan neck -- with only exception, those modified by OP themselves.

Finally, you won't ever find a true Swiss movement in a PAM rep.

As for the actual value of the watch, the dagger swan neck puts the price higher, definitely well over $100.

$300 might even be not unfair, depending on the other watch features (sapphire, lume, etc).

[piberf]

I can say whether this movement is swiss?

I am somewhat confused as to detect if swiss or asian.

[z3k0]

I can say whether this movement is swiss?

I am somewhat confused as to detect if swiss or asian.

This might be swiss (of course, with asian plates) - it has novodiac shock protection, and almost all asians have incablock. There are some swiss that have incablock, but it looks different than asian version. It also have swiss-looking balance wheel.

regards

[peepshow]

@ piberf -- That movement looks Swiss to me. Like Z3k0 said, needle regulator plus Novodiac shock protection plus straight spokes on the balance wheel = Swiss.

@ sssurfer -- I've got a Swiss E movement from DSN with a dagger. It has the Novodiac shock system, though, not Incabloc. There have been *some* Swiss movement with the dagger regulator...

Edited May 13, 2008 by peepshow

[robj]

@ piberf -- That movement looks Swiss to me. Like Z3k0 said, needle regulator plus Novodiac shock protection plus straight spokes on the balance wheel = Swiss.

@ sssurfer -- I've got a Swiss E movement from DSN with a dagger. It has the Novodiac shock system, though, not Incabloc. There have been *some* Swiss movement with the dagger regulator...

You are right lots of swiss exist with a dagger indicator but they are hybrid. I saw one a few days ago that was swiss a 177 that started out as a swiss E series and finished up a H series with dagger and swan neck. None of the swan neck are 100% swiss the back plates have to be changed and anything with Panerai on it has also been modified with some Asian parts. The big question is when does it stop being Swiss and become Asian. I myself would call it Swiss if it had all the swiss internals and base plate but would I be correct? Or should it be called a hybrid

[peepshow]

I think the accepted definition of "Swiss" has now become the movements that started life as Swiss 6497s. You're right, the only 100% Swiss movements are the no-Swan-Neck 6497s with the square bridges, either undecorated or with the glued-on, foil "grafitti" decoration.

EVERY other "Swiss" movement is a hybrid...

[piberf]

If we must choose between a hybrid and an asian?

which to choose?

[ravishingrick]

Finally, you won't ever find a true Swiss movement in a PAM rep.

Not true

The early Luminor Marina PAM reps that came out in 2005 (111G, 118G, 172) with square bridge movements with the stick on plates an recessed pin had genuine SWISS ETA 6497-1 movements in them.

All 6497-2 movements with curved bridges in PAM reps are Chinese 6497-2 copy movements.

[robj]

Not true

The early Luminor Marina PAM reps that came out in 2005 (111G, 118G, 172) with square bridge movements with the stick on plates an recessed pin had genuine SWISS ETA 6497-1 movements in them.

All 6497-2 movements with curved bridges in PAM reps are Chinese ETA 6497-2 copy movements.

We have just said that!!

[robj]

If we must choose between a hybrid and an asian?

which to choose?

New 6497 -2 Asian with engraved bridges is the best in my opinion but difficult to find and almost as expensive as Swiss but high beat 21600

[piberf]

All 6497-2 movements with curved bridges in PAM reps are Chinese 6497-2 copy movements.

RavishingricK, you have to say this, do not understand?

I could comment?

Thank you.