Project Help - Daytona 16520

[pcfreeman2]

Based on By-Tor's great Daytona @ six review, I started putting together the research to build a Daytona 16520 with a Zenith movement.

By-Tor suggests in his post that I should expect to pay "2-3 thousand dollars" for this. However, when I start to price the project out I get the following:

Phong Case Kit - $1,650

Movement - 1,300

Bracelet - 1,350

Dial & Hands - 1,200

Total - $5,500

Even if I get the bracelet, dial, & hands for half price. I am still looking at over $4,000 USD. And all this assumes I can put it together myself (which is not a given).

I can't imagine how to get this project under $3,000. Am I missing something?

I have found all of the Daytona posts very informative, and I thank you in advance for all of your help with this project.

[Guest Sql_pl]

Sorry but at 3k it is not possible.

Maybe with aftermarket case, blurry aftermarket dial and aftermarket bracelet.

I am right now in the finishing lap of my 16520 project and so far I am at around 6.5k usd but with virtually all parts gen rolex (apart from the movement of course which is NOS Ebel 134).

But still you need to remember this watch in gen form goes for like 18k usd now so it is still like only 1/3 of the price with 99.999% gen watch in your hands.

As we speak 16520 I have actually left it at good watchsmith place today and hopefully will be able to pick it up in like 2-3 weeks ready to wear!

[ubiquitous]

All said and done, I have +/- $4500 spent PER WATCH on mine...

Gen parts do not come cheap, unfortunately.

[wombat247]

I don't want to [censored] on anyone's cheerios, but at that cost, I'd just get the gen.

[ubiquitous]

For a gen 16520, you're looking at a minimum of $11 - $12k.

For less than the price of one, I have TWO.

[wombat247]

For a gen 16520, you're looking at a minimum of $11 - $12k.

For less than the price of one, I have TWO.

If we're being perfectly honest though, you have none. If you had a gen, you could sell it now for $11k-$12k and who knows how much you'd get for it in the future. With yours, you'll get whatever a rep collector will pay for it. I don't know if you ever plan to sell yours- with all the (outstanding) work you've done, I doubt you'd ever want to, but there's a lot to be said for owning something that has intrinsic value. By intrinsic value, I mean a HUGE market willing to pay for it.

[ubiquitous]

Actually, I can always part these back out if I wanted to, and get current market value for parts, which would recover cost at current prices out there. No interest in that for me, however.

I do have to disagree, however- These watches are real; I can hold them, feel them, wear them. So, yes, I have two. Two that I enjoy wearing and two that I have had the immense pleasure and satisfatcion in building. If I were insterested in the value of these watches, I'd have bought one gen (and quite honestly boring) 116520. But, I'd rather have variety, as well as something I put my time and effort into. I'd rather have that over something that just anyone can walk into a store to buy. I could care less about the fact that these weren't put together in a factory in Switzerland, or that they weren't sold through an AD when new. The value of these two pieces (to me) is something that I can't place a dollar value on.

Much is the same story for all of my watches; it's the aspect of the hobby that makes it fun for me. I used to buy gens, but now I'd rather build. Some people build ships in a bottle... Some build model railways or build and modify cars (which I used to do). Me... I build watches. Not for everyone, I understand but we're all in this hobby for different reasons.

[dluddy]

If we're being perfectly honest though, you have none. If you had a gen, you could sell it now for $11k-$12k and who knows how much you'd get for it in the future. With yours, you'll get whatever a rep collector will pay for it. I don't know if you ever plan to sell yours- with all the (outstanding) work you've done, I doubt you'd ever want to, but there's a lot to be said for owning something that has intrinsic value. By intrinsic value, I mean a HUGE market willing to pay for it.

There is also something to be said for building a Franken yourself as Ubi has done....I might argue that this has more value - especially to his kids

If your end goal is to enjoy it for a while and re-sell it then I agree with you...buy genuine

[ubiquitous]

There is also something to be said for building a Franken yourself as Ubi has done....I might argue that this has more value - especially to his kids

If your end goal is to enjoy it for a while and re-sell it then I agree with you...buy genuine

Exactly While some people might raise an eyebrow as to me giving these to my kids, I view this as an entirely personal objective; I wanted my son and baby girl (if she so chooses to want it) to have something that their dear old Dad made specifically for them. That was my intent and goal from the very begining of these projects (old timers will likely remember when I first posted about the first one). I wanted to give them something that had more sentimental value and meaning than dollar value. I have some gens for them as well, but I am hopeful that these Daytonas will mean a little more to them when the time comes.

[dieselpower]

I couldn't agree more with what Ubi has said. I get sick of people saying that my watches aren't 'real'. Yes they are real, they really tell the time, they really look great, they really are waterproof and I really love them quite often more than the gens I own - they certainly get more wrist time. So, reps are real watches assembled by real people be them Swiss, Chinese or Martians - I don't care.

Sorry - rant over.

Oh, and if Ubi can't make one for less than $4500 then it can't be done.

Good luck with your Daytona whichever route you chose to take.

[wombat247]

I couldn't agree more with what Ubi has said. I get sick of people saying that my watches aren't 'real'. Yes they are real, they really tell the time, they really look great, they really are waterproof and I really love them quite often more than the gens I own - they certainly get more wrist time. So, reps are real watches assembled by real people be them Swiss, Chinese or Martians - I don't care.

Sorry - rant over.

Oh, and if Ubi can't make one for less than $4500 then it can't be done.

Good luck with your Daytona whichever route you chose to take.

I said "real" as a term of art- meaning that it's genuine. Of course our reps are real to us. I own FAR more reps than gens (something like 5 to 1) or something crazy like that. They're all convincing enough to me to feel like the real deal but I focus on styling more than function. I dive, but when I dive, I wear a dive computer- not a dive watch. I swim with my gens as well as my reps and so far, so good. The big thing keeping me in reps is that the entire cost of a rep- even a super rep- is less than ONE servicing of a gen. That is one fact I cannot get over. That said, a rep is a rep and a gen is a gen.

It's my opinion that it's a mistake to confuse the two. I'm by no means bashing reps. I'm a huge fan of them. The only gens I buy are ones that can't be repped (yet). A few examples are a few watches with micro-rotors (I wish there were reps with microrotors), a doppelchronograph (with a rattrapante button that is actually functional rather than for "fun"), and an x-33 (my go to watch when I don't know what I'll be doing next). I own fewer and fewer gens and more and more reps. My wife thinks I have far too many, but when I can buy 20 reps for the price of one gen, I'm not stopping. I have a lot of watches and I can't reasonably wear all of them all the time so having a $300 watch sitting there gathering dust until I wear it is a lot more appealing than a $5k watch I wear once every 3 months.

Reps are so good (from our dealers) that I can be quite happy wearing them and get 99% of the pleasure I'd get from a gen.

[freddy333]

I would love to add my $0.02 here, but the last 3 posts said it all.

Actually, I do have something (new) to add - I have seen people (not just rep collectors) pay quite good money for some Franken-Rolexes. Many of us here have seen Double Red SeaDweller & Daytona frankens (listed as gens in aftermarket cases and/or sold with 'repainted' (aftermarket) dials) sell at auction for $10k+. And with Rolex prices setting new records with each new Antiquorum or Christie's auction, many gen collectors (who are no longer afford these gems) are more than willing to make an exception to the 'No Rep' rule when it comes to a well-crafted Daytona like Ubi's.

[wombat247]

Exactly While some people might raise an eyebrow as to me giving these to my kids, I view this as an entirely personal objective; I wanted my son and baby girl (if she so chooses to want it) to have something that their dear old Dad made specifically for them. That was my intent and goal from the very begining of these projects (old timers will likely remember when I first posted about the first one). I wanted to give them something that had more sentimental value and meaning than dollar value. I have some gens for them as well, but I am hopeful that these Daytonas will mean a little more to them when the time comes.

I think you're doing the right thing for yourself. I remember when you put together the white daytona. There's clear love and joy in your work. I'm not a believer that our children will have any interest in our watches, but if they do, your children will want the ones you built more than the ones you bought.

[dieselpower]

Don't mean to bang on but my point was merely that rep watches are watches nevertheless. It bugs me when people say that a watch is a 'fake watch' thereby implying that it is somehow no longer a watch. Its all in the wording I suppose but my point was that the only thing fake about a rep is the fact that it says 'Swiss' on the dial and as we know, in most cases (no pun intended) this is a lie. The dial may lie but the watch is still 100% a watch in the true definition of the word. Don't mean to go off topic but it is an interesting discussion.

All the best.

[wombat247]

Don't mean to bang on but my point was merely that rep watches are watches nevertheless. It bugs me when people say that a watch is a 'fake watch' thereby implying that it is somehow no longer a watch. Its all in the wording I suppose but my point was that the only thing fake about a rep is the fact that it says 'Swiss' on the dial and as we know, in most cases (no pun intended) this is a lie. The dial may lie but the watch is still 100% a watch in the true definition of the word. Don't mean to go off topic but it is an interesting discussion.

All the best.

I get your point but you're mincing words. I don't mind your argument at all- as long as you don't use it on yourself to convince yourself of something that's somewhat less than true.

To thine own self be true.

[pcfreeman2]

I appreciate all the insights. The good news is I didn't miss anything. The bad news is that it is too expensive.

I have been patiently waiting the past few days for the daytona fairy to leave a PM in my inbox offering me Phong's case kit for $1,000 US off. Perhaps I will pull a tooth and stick it under my pillow tonight and see if that helps.

I would probably be in this project for +/-$4,000 but not $6,500. For this 16520 project I feel like I am being taken advantage of on Phong's case too much. The rest of the parts with patience I feel like I could get a good deal on (and they are gen so they are resellable on the open market).

For the price of an Ubi'like 16520 I could build three Freddy333 vintage 62XX Daytonas with gen Valj 72 movements.

Again thanks all for the robust discussion.

[dieselpower]

@ wombat247

I am under no illusions. My reps are made from parts manufactured in various countries and assembled and modified by various people. That's it. They are still watches though. I suppose a good analogy to make would be that a fake painting is still a painting.

Appreciate the quote by the way but can't help wondering if you are a fan of Shakespeare or Clueless

[wombat247]

@ wombat247

I am under no illusions. My reps are made from parts manufactured in various countries and assembled and modified by various people. That's it. They are still watches though. I suppose a good analogy to make would be that a fake painting is still a painting.

I understand your point. I don't disagree.

Appreciate the quote by the way but can't help wondering if you are a fan of Shakespeare or Clueless

Is it okay if I'm a fan of both? I'll take wisdom wherever I can get it.

[dieselpower]

I'm a fan of both too. Does my 1665 DRSD go with this jacket?

Carpe diem ok, you look hot in it!

Nice trading thoughts with you.