Guest avitt Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Check it out: http://www.usseagull.com/main.htm And Kevin is very responsive to questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 the chinese people managed to do the double tourbillons and minute repeaters...wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 and the prices are impressive...! 19.000$ for a quarter repeater? thanks, but no, not from china! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Oh I just can't wait untill someone reps a seagull tourby or minute repeater useing their own MVT! Those are very close to several of the Millionsmart watches and I suspect they were indeed cased by them. I would think that if these(dbl tourbys) are on the MS site you should be able to get one thru Homer for a grand or so, maybe less. That site is like the BestSwiss of gen CN watches. Quality's good, prices suck. Iv'e seen retailers geting two or even two and a half grand for the MS flying tourby depending on model so three to seven is achiveable. Where else can joe average get a real working tourby for under thirty grand or so? Our's just come cheap and if you have ever held a propper flying tourby in your hand you know what I meen. Nothing wrong with the Seagull MVTs either. They make a lot of the best A7750s as well as the venerable ST19 that powers the manual speedmasters. They were one of the first to market with a ETA clone and make one of the best. Here's a short history of Seagull. History of Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Factory In January 1955, on the basis of a Chinese government order to establish a watch industry in the north of the country, four men in a small workshop with limited tools set out to build China's first wristwatch. Starting with a Swiss Sindaco 5 jewel pin-lever design, they successfully completed the prototype on 24 March. This first watch was called WuXing (5 Stars). This low-grade watch went into very limited production, each unit virtually hand-made. From this humble beginning began what is now one of the world's biggest mechanical watch enterprises. Preparations began in 1957 for the establishment of the Tianjin WuYi Watch Factory, which was completed the following year. An all-new 17 jewel watch entered production, with the brand name WuYi (5-1 i.e. May Day). These watches were based on Swiss designs and were of good quality. Today they are much sought-after by collectors. Later calibre ST-2A WuYi watches featured some detail enhancements including shockproofing and extra jewels. In 1962 the factory moved to a new site and was renamed Tianjin Watch Factory. In 1961 the Ministry for Light Industry received the order to develop a new 'aviator's watch' for the People's Liberation Army Air Force. This was designated Project 304. Around this time a seconds-only chronograph version of the ST-2A was prototyped, but it did not enter production. The Venus Watch Company, Switzerland, were wanting to offload the calibre 175 chronograph tooling to raise capital for development of their calibre 188. The USSR were not interested, but the Chinese were. The 175 was purchased for Project 304. By October 1965, the third test batch were completed and submitted to the Ministry and Air Force for approval, which was passed in December. By May the following year, 1400 chronograph watches had been delivered to pilots of the PLAAF. Meanwhile also in 1966, the factory successfully developed the first 100% Chinese designed and built wristwatch, the Dong Feng (East Wind). The calibre ST5 was modern, thin, accurate and of high quality. It had 19 jewels, including jewels for the mainspring barrel. A somewhat bulky automatic version was later developed but was produced in only limited numbers. The ST5 met the National First Grade standard, which may have been a factor in the Tianjin factory being granted an exemption from production of the Chinese Standard (Tongji) watch. In line with national industry standards, the ST5 was upgraded to a 21600bph escapement and designated ST5-K. The ST5 movement is prized by collectors for its distinctive 'Sea-Gull Stripes' decoration comprising graceful radiating arcs engraved deeply on the plates. Due to the hand-finishing, no two are exactly alike. In the early 1970s, the factory successfully developed an electronic tuning-fork watch based on the Bulova Accutron. Apart for proving that they could do it, there seems no good reason for this effort. By this stage, quartz was looking like the future for watches, and the Tianjin tuning-fork never entered production. Approval for export of the ST5 watch was granted in 1973. The name East Wind was probably recognized as too political for the international market, so the caseback logo of a windswept sea had a flying sea gull added to it, and the dial was signed SEA-GULL. This was the first exported Chinese watch. In 1975, the woman's watch ST6 was developed. The smaller size meant it was neither as accurate or robust as the ST5, however it was still a good watch with a good reputation. It was China's first export-quality woman's watch. Due to a simplified construction, the ST6 was significantly cheaper to make than the ST5. Building upon these two successes, ST5 and ST6 movements were sold to Mechanica Fina in Romania for the manufacture of Orex watches. Also in the 1970s, Tianjin Watch Factory developed a watch of a higher grade than the ST5. This was the Sea-Gull ST7 day/date automatic. The movement design showed some ETA/Eterna inspiration, and the micrometer regulator suggests the kind of accuracy that was expected of it. Unfortunately at this time 'Red China' was a closed country to the rest of the world, and nothing was known of their watch industry. It now seems unreasonable that a foreign watch buyer might have chosen a Sea-Gull over the nearest equivalent from Tissot or Titoni. On the other hand, how many ordinary people in China could have afforded such a watch? The ST7 was an excellent watch without a market. Sea-Gull watches were sold in parts of Asia, and in 1977-78 some were sold in Britain. However, unlike the Soviet Union, the Chinese watch industry lacked a coordinated approach to exports, and Sea-Gull did not become a household name outside of China. By the early 1980s, the mechanical watch market was declining, quartz digital watches, especially mulit-function models, were reaching the peak of popularity, and a new demand for very thin quartz analogue watches was emerging. At the same time, economic policy in China was changing, leading towards more international trade, both import and export. This was a tough time for the Chinese watch industry. Simple hand-winding watches still had their uses (for example China's first South Pole expedition in 1985 was equipped with Sea-Gull ST5 watches) but on the general market they were simply not competitive. Tianjin Watch Factory met the challenges of the 1980s by developing the quartz calibres ST9 and ST11, which were reliable and successful at least on the domestic market. Their other response to quartz competition was slightly controversial, although by no means unique in the Chinese watch industry. Mechanical watches were still competitive against quartz on some markets so long as they were self-winding and not too expensive e.g. Seiko 5. The calibre ST6D was based on the woman's watch calibre ST6, but with an oversized dial plate supporting a calendar mechanism big enough for a man-sized watch. An auto-winding module was installed with a large diameter rotor. The result was low-cost and of reasonable quality, albeit somewhat fragile. In spite of the factory being given self-management of their export program in 1988, Sea-Gull watches remained obscure on most markets. However the factory realized that there was a ready market for cheap automatic movement for foreign watch assemblers, particularly in Hong Kong. As the 'quartz revolution' peaked, the 'mechanical rennaissance' began, with mechanical watches slowly gaining popularity in the developed world, this time not in the mainstream, but as a niche market. This was fertile ground for the makers of counterfeits of famous brands like Rolex and Omega. Sadly a large proportion of ST6D movements have found their way into fakes over the years. In 1990 the Tianjin Watch Factory was promoted to a national level enterprise, and in 1992, the Tianjin Sea-Gull Corporation was set up. In that year the decision was made to cease production of mechanical watches in favour of quartz watches. However just five years later the decision was reversed and the company committed to only make mechanical movements! The current success of the company is testament to the wisdom of this decision. In 2000 the Sea-Gull Group was floated on the stock market. In 2001 watchmaking enterprises were acquired in Dalian and Yantai, and in Shijiazhuang in 2003. A Sea-Gull branch was established in Hong Kong that year to manage the export market. Movement manfacturing remains in Tianjin. As successful as the ST6D has been, it was something of a stop-gap, so a new all-purpose base calibre was developed in 1997. The calibre ST16 drew extensively upon the design of the popular Japanese Miyota 8200 series, but incorporating a high-efficiency auto-winding system inspired by Seiko. This provided Sea-Gull with a modern, simple and efficient full-sized wristwatch calibre that served as the basis of a myriad of complicated variants. The revised ST17 allowed even further diversity. The ST16 and ST17 have proved very popular, but demand remains strong for the ST6D which remains as Sea-Gull's base model, and is also now available with many complications. By 2005, Sea-Gull were making more than 25% of all the world's mechanical movements. As the Chinese watch industry has become crowded with auto-winding watches featuring simple calendar and dual-time complications, Sea-Gull sought to stay ahead of the competition by entering the elite world of mechanical chronograph manufacturers. In 2003 the Project 304 chronograph was resurrected, updated and given the designation ST19. This movement has been extremely successful, both in watches by third party manufacturers, and Sea-Gull branded watches. A series of watches commemorating the original Aviator's Watch was released in 2005 and sold quickly. Several reissues have also sold fast. Around the same time, Sea-Gull also developed their first tourbillon movement, the ST80. This has also earned a good reputation in Sea-Gull watches and external brands. As other tourbillon manufacturers struggled to keep up, Sea-Gull released their Double Tourbillon in 2006, featuring one ST80 escapement and another common axis tourbillon from their new calibre ST82, geared together. It is available in an intricate skeleton version, as is also the ST80 and ST19. Sea-Gull have also introduced a quarter-repeater for production ,and presented a minute repeater prototype at the Basel watch fair. A perpetual calendar watch is in development. Not forgetting the mass-market, Sea-Gull have also recently introduced a wristwatch alarm movement, and a pocket watch movement. Responding to the shortage of ETA-type automatics, Sea-Gull are now offering their own version of the ETA 2824 and 2892, in direct competition with Swiss company Sellita. Continuing their push into Swiss territory, Sea-Gull are also supplying ST16 ebauches to Swiss movement finisher Claro Semag. While Sea-Gull's mass-market offerings turn a solid profit, their tourbillons and chronographs have promoted the Sea-Gull brand to a level of recognition never previously achieved. Indirectly, the success of Sea-Gull has also helped improve the image of 'Made in China' products. Among watch enthusiasts 'Sea-Gull' has become synonymous with good quality Chinese watchmaking. As of September 2008, Sea-Gull has taken an interesting new move towards internationalisation as it is entering the European market via an agent. A European Sea-Gull website has been established to promote and sell a selection of primarily high-end Sea-Gull products. The website has a much more European 'feel' and profile (than Chinese). If successfull, in establishing a network of authorised dealers around Europe and penetrating the market, it is certainly going to be very interesting to see how the European watchmaking industry will respond to this new competitor on their home turf. However, higher brand recognition and success for Sea-Gull in Europe, might also help strengthen the Sea-Gull brand in China, which is currently the single most attractive watch market in the world. Current calibers: ST6 – 3 sub-families: * Woman-size automatic, hand-wind or hand-wind skeleton * Man-size automatic, with various calendar and 24-hour/day-night display options * Hand-wind, rectangular form-movement with open heart ST16 – Miyota-style simplified construction with Seiko-style auto-winding. Many calendar and 24-hour display options available. ST17 – Upgraded ST16 with even more options including jump-hour, big date and power-reserve. Skeleton versions, both automatic and hand-winding. ST18 – Premium ETA/Eterna-style movement; fast-beat, automatic, day/date. Possibly superseded by ST24? ST19 – Hand-winding chronograph developed from Venus 175. Available as skeleton or with power-reserve. ST22 – A pair of small ST6 automatics on a common dial plate. Open-heart and big-date options. ST24 – Clone of ETA 2428-2 ST25 – Premium movement with double-bridged balance for open-heart. Various calendar options. ST26 – Clone of ETA 2892 ST28 – AS1475-style hand-winding alarm. ST36 – Unitas-style 36mm pocket-watch movement, hand-winding with subsidiary seconds. Skeleton version with unusual bar-type bridges. ST80 – Blancpain-style flying caroussel-tourbillon. Various calendar and power-reserve options. Hand-winding or automatic. Skeleton version is hand-wind only, no options. ST82 – Tourbillon with large-diameter balance on common axis with carriage. Hand-winding or automatic. 'Flying' or bridged tourbillon. ST8080 – Hand-winding dual tourbillon; caroussel and common axis. ST9000 – Hand-winding quarter-repeater. Minute-repeater not yet in production. Calibre unknown – Perpetual calendar, not yet in production. Hope you find all that informative, Col. EDIT: I've had a close look and I reckon there exactly the same watches you can buy unbranded from Homer for five to eight hundred bucks. If there not on his site I'v seem em on the MS site and the're all priced around the same. I'd allmost lay money on it. Edited November 6, 2008 by trailboss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Oh I forgot to add thanks to the CN watch industry Wiki for the info. BTW, with the gold ones of cause there's one difference. Theirs are solid not plate. The SS ones appear identical tho. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 I don't understand how something like this costs $2400 ..when that exact watch (except different design) is sold by our rep dealers like Narikaa for ~$600... ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vric Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 I don't understand how something like this costs $2400 ..when that exact watch (except different design) is sold by our rep dealers like Narikaa for ~$600... ??? You pay for the Brand Name... Why Hublot watch cost 18k$ when a swiss 7750worth $500 and the rest of the watch can be made fore under $100 ? Same with Rolex, Omega, Breitling name it ! (Or just look at some Quartz Tag that look like $30 Casio..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 yes, because sea-gull on the dial is worth paying 1800$ more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Poor things they've confused thier RMB with $ ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickdick Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Poor things they've confused thier RMB with $ ;-) This made my day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronoluvvv Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 This made my day hehe yea that's whatcha call a hole-in-one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jockl1978 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Just to show prices are chosen random, look for the same watch at the new european Seagull website: Seagull Tourbillion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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