Before There Were ROO Seconds at 12

[Watchmeister]

In the early days of Offshore reps the only option for proper seconds at 12 functionality was the limited edition MBW with proper movement and gen dial and hands. At the time they were close to $4,000 and out of my league. Than a few months ago another member offered up his in parts. With case, bracelet, dial and hands in hand, I then ran out and bought a new NOS donor watch for the movement. Finally, off to another generous forum member's wonderful case man for a custom movement holder. The last step will be to Ziggy for a couple of his magical touches... And here is the result and at a much more affordable price.

And the obligatory wrist shot:

[fotoman]

Classy piece

i was making some popcorn though, waiting for a longer history lesson i was like ohhh, grab the blanket and popcorn here we go

but, classy piece Enjoy!

[archibald]

Now that is a beautiful piece!!

[Guest Sql_pl]

Oh dear...

don't want to rain on your parade W but your datewheel is extremely sunken! And that crown as well!

:) :)

Great rare piece! Wear it well!

[Shundi]

Very nice... what did you use for a donor watch?

[cc]

is this the case from the MBW or is it a gen case??

[dluddy]

Nicely done Kruz. Can't wait to see the finished product

[Watchmeister]

Very nice... what did you use for a donor watch?

I used a Concord but there are 3 or 4 brands that use the same movement/module combination.

CC-

I used the MBW case, They made the necessary adaptations for the offset crown/pushers to the cases they used for the proect.

[bosk]

I used a Concord but there are 3 or 4 brands that use the same movement/module combination.

CC-

I used the MBW case, They made the necessary adaptations for the offset crown/pushers to the cases they used for the proect.

I think the only give away is the hands...so the asian hands for the old asian 7750 fit the concord movement? I have a concord but was missing too many parts like the modified case and was not sure which hands set to use. Awesome project!

[Watchmeister]

I think the only give away is the hands...so the asian hands for the old asian 7750 fit the concord movement? I have a concord but was missing too many parts like the modified case and was not sure which hands set to use. Awesome project!

If I understand your comment, you are right that the issue is the hands. This particular watch is using gen hands. I believe the 7750 hour, minute and main chrono hands from are way too small (to fit on the canon pinion - not dimensions). And you would need to modify the case for the lower crown resulting from the base movement chrono module set-up and finally fabricate a movement ring to mount the movement into the case.

[dalayclass]

If someone wants a movement I have one for sell, it's a Bulova (ETA+DD)

[Katerchen]

congrats kruzer

for sure a classy watch and definitely a "class of its own"!!

george

[iceberg1459]

which movt. did you use? i thought only jlc has movt. with that subdial placing

i could only find concords with el primero movt

[bosk]

which movt. did you use? i thought only jlc has movt. with that subdial placing

i could only find concords with el primero movt

The concord ventu has an automatic ETA 2892-A2 w/module with the correct spacing.

Does the pictured APROO have the gen hands? The hour hand seems to have too large of a base like the currect sec @12 reps and the MBW sec @9.

-bosk

[Watchmeister]

I can't tell you for sure as I bought it "as is" from another trusted member. I can tell you that the hands do fit the canon pinion like a glove which I have been told no other rep hands do. Interestingly, it has always been possible to find dials but the key hindrance has been the hands since you can't open the barrel of the hand enough to fit on the pinion and still have enough metal in place for the hand to stay secure. I suppose it is possible that MBW made custom hands for them though since they have ready access to those sort of things. So I will defer to the experts.

[bosk]

I can't tell you for sure as I bought it "as is" from another trusted member. I can tell you that the hands do fit the canon pinion like a glove which I have been told no other rep hands do. Interestingly, it has always been possible to find dials but the key hindrance has been the hands since you can't open the barrel of the hand enough to fit on the pinion and still have enough metal in place for the hand to stay secure. I suppose it is possible that MBW made custom hands for them though since they have ready access to those sort of things. So I will defer to the experts.

The MBW hands on an old 21K asian movement could always fit the an ETA 7750 but I was never sure if they would fit the AP gen-like movement.

Thanks for sharing the detail of this great project

[Shundi]

I used a Concord but there are 3 or 4 brands that use the same movement/module combination.

CC-

I used the MBW case, They made the necessary adaptations for the offset crown/pushers to the cases they used for the proect.

Ah I see...can't wait to see the finished project!!

[iceberg1459]

concord ventu

orig. AP Movt

same price

[bosk]

concord ventu

orig. AP Movt

same price

hmmm...that AP org movement shown is in "not working" condition....a hard gamble at 2K.

[archibald]

concord ventu

orig. AP Movt

same price

No doubt about it--this is an expensive project, and you have to patient.

If you don't have one of the original MBW case, you'd probably start by buying the best rep you can find, then you have to get a machinist to make the case accept the movement and change the crown tube position. Then the hard part: find hands, a dial. The rest is easy but expensive...you pick up a ventu or other suitable movement-donor watch and pop it right in.

Luckily, my smith is a (swiss) trained machinist, but even so, this piece took a couple of tries, just because it's difficult to predict where the crown hole needs to be--the ROO case is oddly shaped inside and out and difficult to measure.

Interesting question about the 21J hands....was there an ROO rep w/ a 21J movement? I remember a quartz one, but not a "day date" version. If there was a way to use rep hands and rep dials, the project would still easier but my smith surmises that neither will work. Ultimately, going through the effort or not is your personal answer to the following question: How much time and effort is the correct crown position and a reliable movement worth?

[Watchmeister]

concord ventu

orig. AP Movt

same price

Actually, NOS Ventu's are readily available at less than half the price of a non-working AP movement. And Arch is right - you absolutely need a great smith/machinist who can re-tool a case (if you don't have the MBW) and make a custom movement ring.

[rogerthat]

This is fantastic, can't believe I missed this earlier!!!

Time for a bump for the franken.

So the bezel and the bracelet are also gen?

Please share you opinions on quality and appearance of the brushing, etc... of the gen bracelet, gen bezel and gen case vs. the MBW or seconds at 12 counterparts.

Great watch. I saw a similar gen dial on the bay not long ago, it sold for a very reasonable amount, I stayed away becuase I did not know if I could do anything with it.

[Watchmeister]

I know you stayed away from the dial because it didn't come with the inner "Tachymeter" bezel and as such was useless. On the case and bracelet they are not gen. They are MBW and although the brush work is fairly good on their stuff this one is worth a rebrush. I also had the benefit of a gen AP to compare the brushing. It is funny that this topic came up as I have just sent it out to Ziggy for a dial and hands change.

[bosk]

I know you stayed away from the dial because it didn't come with the inner "Tachymeter" bezel and as such was useless. On the case and bracelet they are not gen. They are MBW and although the brush work is fairly good on their stuff this one is worth a rebrush. I also had the benefit of a gen AP to compare the brushing. It is funny that this topic came up as I have just sent it out to The Zigmeister for a dial and hands change.

I've move one step closer to this project as well. I managed to score a gen dial. I have the movement already. I only need a properly drilled case and perhaps hands

Or if I can find a blue tachymeter bezel ring, I'd stick this dial in a sec at 12 and have a semi-vintage APROO.

-bosk

[Chronus]

I've move one step closer to this project as well. I managed to score a gen dial. I have the movement already. I only need a properly drilled case and perhaps hands

Or if I can find a blue tachymeter bezel ring, I'd stick this dial in a sec at 12 and have a semi-vintage APROO.

-bosk

Any advice where to get the movement and dial? I have one of the original MBWs still in the wrapper and at one point almost got their expensive version...!