hackR Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I got this watch from a member in a trade...it is a seagul st-19 movement version with a display caseback...prior to the trade, i was told that the traders daughter was "playing" with the watch to see "the wheels"...she handed the watch back to him with the stem/crown pulled out...we both thought it wasn't a big deal (i'm a relative newbie on all this)...there appears to be more to it that that... Here goes: The movement is fully wound, but not working...the balance wheel is not bound, but something else is bound inside preventing it from moving...when i nudge the balance wheel, i can see the gears on the top/outside of the movement spin...but the movement stops after a couple seconds of movement...it is also difficult to adjust the hands unless i insert the stem/crown just so...but it pulls right out...when pushed in, it holds...i can wind the watch with the stem backwards, but can feel the tension going the "wind" direction - hence why i know it's fully wound... i brought it to my local watchsmith, who couldn't work it...why?...he said that he needed to remove the movement to take it apart...quite honestly, i'm so sure that the movement has to be removed to be worked on - but that is what he emphatically said...that said, the movement sits firmly in a solid brass spacer the cannot be removed from the back b/c it extends into the watch head casing...therefore, in order to take the movement out, the crystal needs to be removed, so the hands can come off...my watchsmith isn't "highend" so he doesn't have the means to take the crystal off from the outside...compounding this all is that, per the trader, the sapphire crystal was AR'd by Chief and put back in by "someone" who did a crappy job...the glue is visible...lastly, the crystal is filthy on the inside and there's even a finger print on the dial...because of this "sloppiness", if i can get the movement working, the crystal has to come off to be cleaned and reseated properly..i haven't a clue, but i assume the crystal has to be removed top-side using some suction cup mechanism?!?!... yikes...a nightmare... so i am trying to sort out what to do...i have "room" to spend some money on a fix, but not if it's a large amount...and obviously i can tell the crystal was re-installed -- it's amazing that whoever did the re-install left what looks like greasy finger marks, dust, grime on the inside crystal edge?!...anyhow, the trader seems to be a reputable member... if you think this watch has the potential for salvaging (i know this is hard to say without seeing it?!), i would welcome advice and/or direction... it's a great looking watch -- but is of no good if it doesn't work...but if there's a reasonable investment to get it working, i'm game for that... here's the text from the traders post on the watch... 3) Franck Muller Casablanca. Seagul ST-19 [Called Lemania by dealers] Handwound Chrono Movt. Chief's double AR'd sapphire crystal, smooth movt keeping excellent time. Not a small watch by any measure, last picture shows the size comparison with a Panerai. The only gripe I have about this watch is whoever put back the crystal did a bit of a half hearted job, leaving glue visible on the side if you look at the watch from top. Its not a hideous site, and is captured in the pictures below - thought I'd mention it in the spirit of full disclosure. I am as anal as they come when it invovles reps! This watch has close to five hundred invested into it. I am also attaching pictures of the watch from the trader... thanks...R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 It sounds like your movement is in need of general servicing (disassembly, clean, lube & regulation). Contact Ziggy or a local watchmaker who works on reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I am hoping The Zigmeister would catch this post... I would love to send it out for servicing/repair... I just wanted to post this so that someone could provide me a sense for whether this might be fixable or not...and the size/scope of the problem... R- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webvan Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Looks you got sold a non-working watch and the description didn't mention that "pulled-out crown" problem, shoulnd't you send it back and let the seller fix it before he sells it again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 i was told that the crown/stem was pulled out...but that it could be re-inserted...unfortunately i was not told that the advertised working nature of the watch was no longer true...notably that the watch is fully wound, but something is preventing the balance wheel from stayin "on"...when the balance wheel is moved, by carefully manually moving it with a toothpick, it actually oscillates -- but only for less than 10 seconds...i can see the gears moving, too... i bought it figuring i would have to have it serviced for approx $50usd...but now, i haven't a clue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webvan Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I take it starting or stopping the chrono doesn't change its behavior ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 @webvan...i'm making progress...i repeatedly and gently kept moving the balance wheel this morning...at first it would run for 10 seconds...eventually it ran for a minute, then 2 minutes...finally, after repeatedly manual nudges of the balance wheel it's running...and yes - the second hand is sweeping fine...since i am letting it run - assuming it will continue on a full wind - i have not tried the chrono yet...i have been able to reset the chrono prior to it running...when i press either pusher (stop/start and reset pushers), i can see that all apprears to work fine...kinda fun to see all this happen with this seagul movement... my next challenge is the stem/crown...which holds when fully depressed into the case...however, when i pull it out, it comes out entirely...and prior to it running, it was tough to find the right insertion point to adjust the hands...i can see the stem release point on the movement...i have gently pushed this release point with a small tool, but i can't "feel" anything happening...is there any info on how this works and/or how to trouble shoot getting the stem/crown to stay put...from what i was told, the stem/crown was pulled out...so i don't know what that may have done to the inside of the movement and the release point/mechanism...any advice would be helpful... R- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 an update...see previous post first... i decided to try the chrono as the watch has been running for 4 hours... the chrono starts but stops after 15-35 seconds...and it stops the entire watch (balance wheel stops)...i then hit the stop pusher and then reset...after i do this, the balance wheel starts up on it's own again...that's a good sign...it almost seems like the watch needs a servicing as perhaps it's dry and that's why it wouldn't start and why the chrono stops...not sure, tho... and the stem/crown is still a problem...i can't seem to get it inserted right in order to change the hands...and, of course, the stem/crown comes out... making progress...any advice is appreciated... R- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webvan Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Good to hear about your progress. More or less in the same boat with a Lemania/Seagull on a second hand fantasy Patek skeleton I received on Tuesday. It loses about 30 seconds a day and I noticed it had stopped last night. I must have started the chrono by accident. The crown is well attached but there must be something wrong with it because I can't wind it properly, it makes a clicking sound as if tow cogs weren't properly aligned. Getting more and more disappointed in second hand purchases, on the other hand QC is not the forte of rep watches when they are fresh from the factory so it's a bit naive to think they're still running fine after a year, whether they've been worn a lot or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azerbyjam Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Given that the stem pulls out of the movement I think you can be fairly certain that the keyless works has been pushed out of whack and for that there is only one fix. The movement will have to come out of the case, the hands and dial removed and the keyless works re-set. Whether this will fix the other issue you describe is debatable and unless you have tackled this before it probably isn't a DIY proposition. A full service of the movement sounds like your best bet, assuming you have access to a watchmaker who is willing to work on reps and sorry to say it but your estimate of $50 for a service sounds a touch optimistic to me. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 @Azer -- thanks...i am searching posts for a detailed look on this keyless works problem...especially with a hand wound movement, like the seagul...if you know of a good post, please let me know...would save some time...i won't plan to do this myself...just want to learn...what's your best guestimate of a servicing/fix of this problem -- assuming a tear-down and a fixable solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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