ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Before I begin; this isnt your average 904L vs 316L thread where people give their personal accounts of what looks 'better'. As a non-gen owner I typically buy into the whole "904L looks like white gold man you should see it shine!", as a friend owns a gen 16610 I constantly stare at it thinking to myself whether its shining more or less than my own rep.. The interesting thing about this is the way we are often guaging the 'shininess' (just see any article comparing a Rolex to something like an Omega, or a rep/gen comparison) is from the look of the bracelet. However, recently I have read a number of articles that have led me to believe that only the Cases themselves (exclusive of Casebacks AND bracelets) are made of 904L, the latter being made of 316L. I would say that this applies particularly with the older models during the early period of 904L use, that they may have still been using 316L for bracelets and such. It isnt too difficult to imagine that the steel in a Rolex and Omega bracelet are of the same 'grade', yet sourced from different parts where Rolex may buy a brighter or whiter (not more expensive) looking material, or simply that Rolex's polishing and finishing goes to great lengths to perpetuate this whole 'Rolex shine' business. It is also possible that Rolex's latest models (The Deepsea and POSSIBLY the GMT IIc) have bracelets made of 904L though. So with all our forum members knowledge can we pull together some kind of consensus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 My question here is what can be done to the rep steel to get it the same color as the gen version? I've started looking into white gold vs palladium plating to get the right color but the salesperson I spoke with was real wishy washy about plating SS because of the prep and quality of material that comes from the various rep factories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickdick Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Before I begin; this isnt your average 904L vs 316L thread where people give their personal accounts of what looks 'better'. As a non-gen owner I typically buy into the whole "904L looks like white gold man you should see it shine!", as a friend owns a gen 16610 I constantly stare at it thinking to myself whether its shining more or less than my own rep.. The interesting thing about this is the way we are often guaging the 'shininess' (just see any article comparing a Rolex to something like an Omega, or a rep/gen comparison) is from the look of the bracelet. However, recently I have read a number of articles that have led me to believe that only the Cases themselves (exclusive of Casebacks AND bracelets) are made of 904L, the latter being made of 316L. I would say that this applies particularly with the older models during the early period of 904L use, that they may have still been using 316L for bracelets and such. It isnt too difficult to imagine that the steel in a Rolex and Omega bracelet are of the same 'grade', yet sourced from different parts where Rolex may buy a brighter or whiter (not more expensive) looking material, or simply that Rolex's polishing and finishing goes to great lengths to perpetuate this whole 'Rolex shine' business. It is also possible that Rolex's latest models (The Deepsea and POSSIBLY the GMT IIc) have bracelets made of 904L though. So with all our forum members knowledge can we pull together some kind of consensus? The differences are minimal at best. In non-natual light conditions i'm not able to tell the difference, certainly not on pollished surfaces. Direct sunlight is another thing, I do notice more 'shine' if you will on the brushed surface (only) , but you will need both the rep and the gen to tell the difference. I doubt even an uber-WIS will be able to tell it without reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fido Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 chemically, 904 contains more chrome and less carbon that makes the steel more resistant to chemical attack, thats increase a little the "shine" of the material, but is really hard to tell best regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Anybody try this? SILVER BRITE REPLATE & POLISH ONE EASY STEP SILVER BRITE MAKES OLD SILVER PLATE LIKE NEW AGAIN !! Never before has there been a silver polish that cleans, removes and resists tarnish, protects and actually adds a layer of pure silver (99.98%) to sterling and silver plate with each use. SILVER BRITE is safe to use on all eating utensils. It does not contain harmful chemicals, abrasives, or acids, and has no unpleasant odors. SILVER BRITE is quick and easy to use. Ideal for use in the commercial food service industry, cruise industry or for caterers and antique dealers in restoring old silver plate. Wherever maintaining silver is critical to you or your customer's high standards, try this product. Simple to use! Revolutionary SILVER BRITE quickly removes tarnish, polishes and adds a protective coating while depositing pure silver on your fine treasures! SILVER BRITE replates worn silver. Actually adds a fine layer of 99.98% pure silver permanently to dull sterling or worn plated silver, It won't flake, chip, or peel. Safe for use on all eating utensils. Economical!, use it everytime you need to polish. SILVER BRITE replates silver at a small fraction of the cost of expensive electroplating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 "It is also possible that Rolex's latest models (The Deepsea and POSSIBLY the GMT IIc) have bracelets made of 904L though." I always thought genuine rolex watches were made out of highly compressed Bullsh**. Maybe I was wrong... http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tre...ev=&reveal= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The Rolex Deep Sea uses 904L for the case and bracelet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The Rolex Deep Sea uses 904L for the case and bracelet. Hey carl, is there an official source for this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickdick Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hey carl, is there an official source for this information? Its mentioned on the official rolex website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbird_niner Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 This was mentioned on another watch forum about 3 months ago. One guy wrote Rolex and the sent a reply on their letterhead that stated that indeed, the bracelets were 904. He posted the letter but the website escapes me at the moment. Best regards, J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 There are alot of non-specifics, I am trying to get down to the nitty gritty of it really. On TZ a member had a few watches X Ray scanned for their material properties. A Z Series No-Date Sub had a bracelet made of 316, while a Milguass had a bracelet made of 904L. I think its safe to say on that basis that all Submariners have bracelets & clasps made of 316. Expected to change with the new release I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Taken from the Rolex provided technical specifications of the Deep Sea... I can also tell you after handling it yesterday that the steel is not like any other Rolex I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Taken from the Rolex provided technical specifications of the Deep Sea... I can also tell you after handling it yesterday that the steel is not like any other Rolex I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken fingerlove Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The whole difference in colour bull is refuted utterly by the fact that there are (gen) watches out there with 904 heads and 316 bracelets, and no one can tell the difference in colour. I can believe that there is a difference in finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well I suggest you let your fingers do the walking and call around your local AD's. Locate a 116660 and go down and take a look at it. Compare it to a 16610 0r a 11660 and you will see there is a very obvious difference in the color. It is not a matter of the finish being more/less brushed. The finish is the same, and I guarantee if both bracelets were taken off you could tell from across the room which was the 904L. The whole difference in colour bull is refuted utterly by the fact that there are (gen) watches out there with 904 heads and 316 bracelets, and no one can tell the difference in colour. I can believe that there is a difference in finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken fingerlove Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well I suggest you let your fingers do the walking and call around your local AD's. Locate a 116660 and go down and take a look at it. Compare it to a 16610 0r a 11660 and you will see there is a very obvious difference in the color. It is not a matter of the finish being more/less brushed. The finish is the same, and I guarantee if both bracelets were taken off you could tell from across the room which was the 904L. But hang on, aren't the DSSD, SD and sub heads all made of 904L? and the bracelets are variously made of 316 or 904L. Where are all the people whining that their collars don't match the cuffs? Would Rolex sell a watch where the bracelet was a different colour from the head? I just don't believe it. But the next time I'm in a Rolex shop, I'll definitely look out for it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Actually, some eagle eyed gen collectors do say they can notice the difference between the head and the bracelet while discussing this topic. The main difference (which seems to camoflage the slight difference in colour) is of course the finish, the cases are often polished on the sides of the lugs and diagonally brushed in a different manner to the way the bracelet is finished (heavily brush stroked vertically). This said; the colour difference isnt like black and white, some people will notice it more prominently and some wont notice at all. After all - steel is steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Manny Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I've held both gen and rep watches next to each other numerous times and IMO 90% of the difference is finishing. Newer rolex watches are finished much more preciously than older generations and certainly more than our reps. Our 316L reps tend to be very dirty and brushing is course in many cases. While 904L might be a little different in it's color I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it simply finishes differently. It's much like comparing a gen Panerai movement to a rep. If you know what you are looking for the finish will give the movement away from a distance. Same materials most likely but man does it look different in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Im going to try and get this little photo shoot pushed up a few days. The pics may not be as good, but I will see if I can go take them today. You will see that the difference is Substantial. I would compare it to going to the local Infinity dealer and asking to see a G37s in gray, and then parking it next to one in silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'm flooding my own thread with my own posts, and for that I apologise! But the reason why I wanted to concentrate on what the materials used were and NOT how they looked is quite simply because we're using our human eyes to judge it, which I'm afraid is far from exact science. Lets call 316 'A', and 904L 'B' The squares A & B are actually the same colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Ya know what... never mind. Since Im obviously wrong, there is no need to put any more effort in to this! Next your going to argue that 10, 14 and 18kt gold is all the same color... Since its all only GOLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Manny Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Black magic I tell you! Where is my torch and pitchfork!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammandel Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 carl, I wasn't disputing what you said at all?! On the contrary, I agree with what you said. Having seen a Milguass with a 904L bracelet next to a regular sports Rolex TODAY at the AD, I know exactly what you mean. I was trying to illustrate to ken exactly how the different metals could be used together without looking that different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Manny Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I do agree that they can look different, I just don't know if the metal looks different or finishes different. I suspect most of it is in how it polishes or is finished. 316L has less nickel, it polishes brighter and whiter. Since 316L steel is also harder than 904L steel (95 versus 70-90 on the Rockwell hardness scale), it is also more scratch-resistent. These are the more likely reasons why most high-end watch companies use 316L steel. Given the application, scratch-resistance is much more important than corrosion-resistance in determining durability. Also, people like their watches to be nice and shiny. Add the fact that reps are finished to a much lower standard than gens and I suspect a bar of 316L looks very close to a bar of 904L. Also consider that there are different types of 316L which may finish differently. 316L 316L 1/4 Hard 316L Condition B 316L ESR 316L Full Hard 316L Hi-Sil 316L Premium Machinability 316L VAR 316LMN 316LN 316LS 316LVM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.