How To Identify A Vintage Mbw Rolex

[ubiquitous]

With all the talk of MBW's vintage Rolex models, I thought I'd do a small little write up on two popular models (the 1680 and 1665) to outline a few key tell-all characteristics on how to identify a genuine MBW from the others.

Starting with an MBW 1680 Red Submariner:

Here are the first key characterisctics- s/n L341455:

And the Ref. number. Note the purposely mispelled 'POLEX':

Now we move on to the actual construction of the bezel assembly. The MBW's bezels are put together just like genuine:

*Retaining ring

*Bezel washer

*Bezel ring

*Bezel insert

Retaining ring, which holds the crystal down, and keeps things water tight via a gasket underneath the seated lip:

The bezel washer, which allows the bezel ring to rotate bi-directionally, but allows enough tension to keep the bezel ring to spin freely:

The bezel ring itself:

And the bezel insert installed (in this case, a genuine insert):

And, of course, one other characteristic- Genuine Rolex parts fit, no muss, no fuss.

Genuine Tropic127:

And, as mentioned above, the genuine vintage inserts simply snap right in

And now the 1665 White Sea-Dweller:

The s/n- 5790134 (The DRSD uses s/n 5790358):

This time, the Ref is simply stamped 'REGISTERED DESIGN':

Bezel assembly is the same as the MBW 1680 and Genuine, except the profile is stepped, and not flat like the 1680's:

*Retaining ring

*Bezel washer

*Bezel ring

*Bezel insert

Profile is stepped, and thicker. Like the 1680, the retaining ring has a gasket under the seated base:

Bezel washer:

Bezel ring. Much thicker than the Sub (same profile as genuine):

Genuine insert snapped in:

Genuine Tropic39 installed (non-superdome):

Genuine crown/tube and springbars:

[ubiquitous]

The MBW 'Singer' dial:

Inside the caseback:

1665:

1680:

[700club]

Your threads are the best Randy! I always look forward to reading them.

Best Wishes

[olivia]

Quite excellent information. Never having worked on a gen or MBW, what holds the bezel washer on the red sub onto the watch case? Is it compression around the crystal? I assume the bezel snaps onto the bezel washer. Correct?

Edited: Trying to get my terminology right.

Edited March 21, 2006 by olivia

[robertrinaustin]

Thanks to Randy for such an informative post. Don't forget to send me the watch so that I can do a personal comparison between the MBW and WM.

[who]

Sorry to bring this thread back up but this is some great info for a newbie like myself. Especially I just want to buy a vintage Sea Dweller #1665.

[Pugwash]

Sorry to bring this thread back up but this is some great info for a newbie like myself. Especially I just want to buy a vintage Sea Dweller #1665.

Thanks for bumping this up.

[Falco]

Excellent tutorial, should actually be a sticky in my humble opinion

[ubiquitous]

Wow... This one's an oldie!

Who... You must have been doing some serious searching of the archives to have unearthed this one!

Hopefully, it's of help to some of you guys....

[Pugwash]

Hopefully, it's of help to some of you guys....

Yeah, now tell us exactly how to cleanly remove the bezel and crystal.

Oh, and crown/tube.

[ubiquitous]

What kinds of tools do you have, Pugs?

[Pugwash]

What kinds of tools do you have, Pugs?

Pretty much everything apart from hand removers and a crystal press.

I have everything required for motorcycle and computer maintenance in my kit and from craft to industrial tools in Mrs Pug's kit. I've got black sticks and access card tools, mini-drivers, a dremel or two ... and in Scotland, two industrial lathes, drill presses, band saws, a casting forge and a loom.

[Watchmeister]

There is another method to identify MBW - ask Ubi. By the way, is the 1680 mine or one of yours?

[stac]

Should be required reading !

Very nice stuff and done well

I just wish MBW's were easier to get

[ubiquitous]

Sounds like you've got quite a lot covered

I'll start with the crystal removal...

Pop the bezel off of the watch. For this, I usually slide my debit card between the bezel and the case at the crown guards. Because the card is plastic, there is not much risk of marring up the case or bezel with this technique. Once you have the card wedged in, you can work it around the diameter to pop the bezel off. At which point, you'd see this:

Now, you can remove the retaining ring... For this job, you'll need a razor blade to wedge under the ring (this helps lift the ring slightly):

Be sure to work the blade around the diameter of the ring- The objective is to lift the ring evenly. Once you have a slight gap worked up, you can then use a larger/thicker blade to work the ring up and off:

Crystal swap is straightforward- Remove the old and press the new one on with your thumbs. The goal here is to intall once- Multiple R&I's can cause the crystal to stress and possibly form hairline cracks, thus compromising sealing integrity.

Once you have the new crystal on, align the cyclops (if applicable- say on a 1680), double check alignment, and then re-press the retaining ring on. You'll need a press of some sort; I simply use an old Omega Seamaster case as my 'die', and insert the whole assembly into a cheap crystal press I have:

Once you have the ring seated, place the washer spring on, and then install the bezel, which simply snaps onto the lip of the retaining ring. If you have a new bezel insert, that can be installed on the bezel prior to this step.

As for the tube... There are two mods that I absolutely despise doing- Lug hole drilling and tubes. For these... I find myself preferring to farm them out these days, as I would rather put my hand on the stove burner than do these mods. I've done them before, which is how I've come to dislike them... So....

For the tube, you'll need to first heat the tube up to warm the glue up securing it to the case. Some people use the tip of a soldering iron, as it can be inserted into the tube to heat. Once the tube is heated sufficiently, you can use the end of a rat tail file to unthread it from the case. Once removed, it is advised that you run the proper sized tap through the threads to clean them up. These taps can be purchased from most supply houses, and are typically advertised as for the crown size vs. the actual tube size. In this case, you'll need the one advertised for the 6mm crown, as the tube for the 7mm Triplock has the same 3mm diameter:

Once the case is tapped, you can install the tube. Some applications may require a countersinking of the tube, some may not. It depends on the watch you have...

At this point, all that should be necessary is swapping the crown on the stem with genuine, and you oughta be set.

Hope this helps...

R

[ubiquitous]

There is another method to identify MBW - ask Ubi. By the way, is the 1680 mine or one of yours?

The 1680 in the pics is actually a series of old photos of past MBW's I've had and sold...

[Pugwash]

Hope this helps...

Exactly what I needed. Looks like I can't survive without a crystal press.

[yt74]

Is it possible to swap a 1665 crystal in this fashion?

[ubiquitous]

Is it possible to swap a 1665 crystal in this fashion?

Yessir... Process is the same

[yt74]

Thanks, that really simplifies some things for me!

[elprimerozen]

Hi Randy!The taping tool for clean up the threads is 100% nesesary?or not?Its the last mod that i will do on my 1665 and 1680.Are the threads of the mbws the same as a gen?or its 100% useful the taping tool?I think that i can snap on directly the gen tube...what do you say?

Regards.

[ubiquitous]

Hmmmm.... Some cases may require the tap... Some don't. For example- I have an old MBW case, which accepted the tube as-is (no tapping required). But most cases should be tapped as it cleans out the threads, and also helps ease of installation. Tubes have a tendancy of breaking/snapping when the case has not been properly tapped, which can lead to other unnecessary problems (like extracting the broken tube).

[archibald]

Is it possible to swap a 1665 crystal in this fashion?

Just in time..... I never thought I'd see the day, but I'm actually going to buy an MBW vintage. Ubi, I know you already told me this, but it might help people choose which MBW to buy if they knew which vintage Rolex is the least rare, most rare ect. For plausibility reasons, I'm going to go w/ the least rare---and thus least expensive and most believable if I ever run into a WIS at work--that would be white SD, right?

[Watchmeister]

What, Mr. Subtlety now?

[ubiquitous]

Good idea, Arch!

I decided to keep this breakout rather simple, with just a brief run down on things I have observed with each model's genuine counterpart occuring in the market and how they relate to the reps.

For the 1680's...

-Red font - The red 1680 is still priced somewhat affordably, so seeing one isn't impossible, though most collectors know that the fakes are typically of this dial variation. There are some key details (specifically on the dial) with this one that identify it as a replica; hence even more reason why I like the white font variation better.

-White font - Most plausible, and easier to replicate using a genuine dial (white font dials are easier to find, and less expensive). This one can be made 99% (in my opinion).

For the 1665's...

-DRSD - Most desirable, though more common through 6 dial variations and longer run of production. Again, slight dial descrepancies exist that make it easy to identify as a replica.

-White font - Rarer in terms of actual numbers; shorter production run and a good portion of the white font dials have been swapped out to create DRSD's. This dial variant is not as desired as the DRSD, but is my preferred dial of choice due to it's plausibility.

-SRSD - The rarest of the bunch, though not even closely plausible; case is wrong, dial is wrong, and seeing as how there are very, very few in circulation, this is one that is ridiculous to pull off in terms of credibility.

-COMEX - Along the same lines of the SRSD, this one is so rare and valuable that it is extremely difficult to be convincing. Aside from the fact that the dial and caseback is again, incorrect, this one just says fake at a glance to those who know.

No Dates...

5512 - As a watch that can still be found relatively easily on the market, the 5512 continues to represent a bargain in terms of vintage rolex watches, as it's at a price point that is still relatively affordable.

5513 - The 5513 is a fairly common watch as of current, with an extremely long production run until the late 80's. This watch is also very affordable, and available at a price that signifies a true entry level into the market of vintage Rolex.

Hope this helps!

Best,

R